Interview with Nacho Racca

For the recent IIeX LatAm event, I had the honor of being interviewed by Nacho Racca, Competitive Insights Manager of Mercado Libre. Since IIeX was initially conceptualized and launched in LatAm, it was a bit of coming full circle for both of us. Nacho is a visionary client-side leader who has been pioneering new models of creating zero-party, synthesized data across multiple individual-level data sources. Our conversation centered around what is next in how insights and analytics engage with consumers. There is a tremendous amount of innovation occurring in this area globally, and LatAm benefits from a thriving community of innovators helping to lead the way.

In my humble opinion, the future of our entire industry will be driven by changing the respondent engagement paradigm because it will open whole new areas of value creation and impact for the industry. The innovation occurring today will set the direction of that future state. This is an issue that all researcher professionals and users should be paying very close attention to. In this interview, Nacho and I explore this topic in detail as people “in the trenches ” driving this change. I encourage you to take a listen.

This text has been edited for clarity.

Lenny Murphy: Hi Nacho, how are you? 

Nacho Racca: How are you doing Lenny? 

Lenny Murphy: I’m doing all right. 

Nacho Racca: Right. Well, thank you very much for the opportunity and the interview. Maybe one of the most famous studios in the insight industry. Yeah, for interviews already seen there in your house. So thank you for receiving me. 

Lenny Murphy: I’m glad to be here. Yeah, well, it’s more of my man cave than it is anything else, right but the – 

Nacho Racca: The famous cave in the insight industry. 

Lenny Murphy: That’s right, Lenny’s man cave. So, I got to say it’s awesome to – it’s like coming home to where it all started, at IIeX LATAM. So, it’s great to be back on at least a virtual stage for IIeX LATAM. So, thank you. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, thank you very much. Long time since the first Insight Innovation Exchange was done in Brazil 2013. Right. I remember when we were preparing for that one. So, yeah, thanks for coming back. 

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, well we’ve come a long way, I guess, since then. But I know you know this story, but the audience may not. So, humour me for a second. I’ll give the shout-out that Rafa, Rafa Cespedes, he actually is kind of the father of IIeX in a way, because, and you know this Nacho, they invited me to Chile to speak at an event there. And during that time with Rafa and with other folks in the industry, with Alex Garnica, we started talking about this idea of creating an event, IIeX. That was the seed of the entire IIeX event series started in Chile, hanging out with all of the great, wonderful, smart, people in Latin America. And that’s why we chose Sao Paulo for the first event in the IIeX series because that’s where it sprung from. So, for the audience, thank you, our roots for this entire event series comes from Latin America. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, that’s great. So, well, here we are just – do you want to throw to first stone of the chat? Just go for it. 

Lenny Murphy: Sure. Well, I mean, so we had talked about the idea of looking at the trends in the industry and specifically, I think a topic near and dear to both our hearts, on the evolution of sample from the standpoint of how we’re engaging with consumers. And again, Latin America kind of leading the way in innovation, and thinking about that, companies like eCGlobal, Adriana Rocha, or Netquest, or Offerwise. And what you’re doing is well within in your business of rethinking the model of making the consumer first in the relationship between researcher and consumer. 

And even more expressly, doing that in a way that kind of honors data privacy, that honors a fair value exchange, and leverages lots of different data sources than just questions, to be able to create a more integrated holistic view of the consumer. We’re seeing lots of innovation happening and I’d love to hear you talk about what you’re doing at Mercado Libre, as well as companies that I’ve been working with. There’s, some you may know, there’s another company called Veriglif that I’ve been working with – 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, we can go through that. That’s pretty interesting. Yeah, definitely interesting and challenging times. As you may know well, my personal experience, now with Mercado Libre, as a marketplace not only as commerce. For me, it’s like now I’m playing, I’m in Disneyland right, for market research or traditional market researchers. And I would tell you talked about some of those challenges already about the data blending, and the challenges of building a holistic view of the consumer. So, what I’m seeing now is that the presence of the competitive insights, the attitudinal information, is pretty scarce in the internal models. And talking about those models that take the everyday decisions, of marketing decisions, right. 

So, yeah, definitely that’s one of the biggest challenges. Is how can you bring the voice of the consumers to those models because we are pretty experts, let’s say, or we’re pretty used to trying to listen to the steps or the behaviors of those users. And today, definitely behavior ends up being the king of it, or at least on those models, right. And as market insights, as we are a little bit obsessed with building this bridge and bringing all those insights that we grasp through surveys, through communities, and the graphs about all those attitudes, and we start closing the bridge. 

So, at the end, we’re building on these new playgrounds where we start combining all these different data sources and add the voice and listen to what they’re saying and not only listening to their steps, right? So, yeah, I think that we are obsessed with this integration of attitudinal data, with behavioral, with social and try to build this holistic view of the consumer. Yeah, definitely it’s challenging times for the insight industry. That in the past it was hard to find our way within the strategic tables and I make that information to have the power and the value that we saw that they have in the past. Like today, behaviorally is king, right? In the past, behaviour was king in a way that it’s – I have this comparison, at least how I felt about this. It’s like in the past, let’s say survey research is to behavioral, what in the past was the qualitative data to quite like, hey, this is the colorful data, bring some flavor. 

Yeah, the qualitative guys over there will kill me, but that’s how the quant guys that have the strong data and the robust data felt about that. Say, yeah bring some colors to the reports, right? And then we’re entering this worldwide disturbing data, it’s just a colorful data like all the predictions are still coming from the behavioral one, “Hey, we have something to say, look at these attitudes regarding the brand”. 

Lenny Murphy: Right 

Nacho Racca: They’re both on different levels. And yeah, but I don’t know, this is consensus where the behavioral has this predictive power that is much greater. If you want to know what the client is going to do, let’s see what’s he’s been doing in the past and you will learn it, and say “OK, yeah” But have you seen already the power, the predictive value of the competitive insight of the attitudes? I have to say, maybe they never been in the same place to start competing for that kingdom, of that predictive kingdom. So making the bridge is like, give us the opportunity to show how they bond, how the consumer speaks about their experiences, has allowed us to do and to help and have at the end predictive power too. 

So, yeah, I’m obsessed with building these bridges to push the insights again in the table. Because maybe I have the idea that the insights are not present there yet on the models, they take decisions but basically because they didn’t have the chance to play, and by having to play they will show the power of that. At least I want to remove all the doubts about that, right? We’ve been always good models like the brainpower, I don’t know, we have a lot of techniques to try to understand the relationships and that was our full world for the marketing insight teams. Suddenly, I don’t know, we relied only on to, let’s say, to feed the Illuminati people through reports that open the mind and then this guy says, OK let’s, just a segment that is pretty attractive, let’s say the pandemic. 

So we found a new segment out of the pandemics and then they go to the marketing, let’s target our communication there. Yeah, but in the machine all the barriers, it’s not also easy for me for identifying those. Well, they have this age, and they are in this age range, have these socio-economic levels, maybe you can search because they in the past through the pandemic, they bought this gaming chair, so maybe there you can connect. But definitely, the models, the internal models do not have all that information there. So, there is a scarce presence of those insights. And one of my goals is hey, let’s only not feed those Illuminati people through reports, but at the end start feeding with insights. Bring that voice of the consumer to the models that take the decisions internally. So, Yeah, exciting time for building the bridge. Now [INAUDIBLE] 

Lenny Murphy: Well, I think it’s the power of, for years we talked about big data, right? And this predictive analytics off of big data, and that’s what we’re talking about. It is the synthesis and I always think of it as spokes on a wheel, right? So there are all these data sources that can feed into the engine and that engine is an analytics engine. Lots of companies have built great, big businesses off that Amazon, Facebook, even Google. Now they deploy those insights in very specific ways, mostly in the case of Facebook and Google, especially for advertising. In the end there’s attitudinal components in that as well. it was interesting when Google surveys launched, for instance. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah. 

Lenny Murphy: The real premise behind Google surveys was to power a survey engine for advertising, particularly within YouTube. So the ability to do ad testing and to fill in the gaps of information that they didn’t have from all of the behavioral data that they were capturing. So, we know and it’s proven by big global companies, that the combination of those data sources of attitudinal and behavioral of BI, business intelligence, you know CI, competitive intelligence, and insights do create more actionable and revenue-generating opportunities across the board. So, and the technology exists to do that. I think what’s most interesting, though, is that what those companies have struggled with and what insights have struggled with is the relationship to the consumers. You know the old saying is, if something is free you’re the product. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, that’s right. 

Lenny Murphy: So Facebook, and no, I’m not casting any shade on any of those companies. They’re wonderful companies that have done great things, but I think they raised the awareness across the board that consumer data in all of its different forms, behavioral, attitudinal, whatever the case may be passive, active, implicit, you know non-conscious, all of these components have a defined value. And that data is what draws those companies or monetization engines for that data, but the consumer has not gotten as much value from that. 

Nacho Racca: Where [INAUDIBLE] equation like the companies raise the awareness and all the data protection laws. At the end, they are seeking to increase the liberties and the freedom to choose for the consumers to be aware of which is the type of information, of their personal information that needs being transacted. And given that they are not aware, then they end up being the product. So, at the end all these laws goes in the way of enhancing the freedom and the liberty to choose, to understand which is the relevant information that I’m sharing and to then be aware that they have commercial, they have value in it. 

Something pretty interesting, because the work that you are doing through, Veriglif and I know that you’re actually working on this big platform for exceptional consumers’ data with the consumer as the king. Like to be, when to receive value from this data sharing. It’s pretty interesting because it’s more like an open playground for where a lot of companies are met over there with the consumer in the middle, having the power to decide. 

[INTERPOSING VOICES] 

Nacho Racca: Sorry? 

Lenny Murphy: It’s disruptive, so therefore it’s hard. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, I don’t know, I was thinking, hey maybe one of the biggest challenges is to convert this as a mainstream, right? To change the companies to join this open playground – 

Lenny Murphy: [LAUGHING] It’s rough. It’s a steep hill. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah and you can compare this, to balance the difference between an Open Model as the one that you are suggesting and the proprietary small playgrounds that are more accessible for big companies to build. Whereas building our own playgrounds, our own data playgrounds. Yeah, I understand if in the future we’ll go more on an open thing, because maybe it can raise the quality of that data too. When it’s open we have different sources, different types of data to combine, and you do not have the money to build this – search for a transaction between the individual and every single company. So, it makes a lot of sense. 

In the end, what we are building for now, until your platform and the open platform is already set up is building our own proprietary playgrounds where we find, and we tune in, and we build our own weapons to be ready once the open game is ready, right? So, I think that basically today we are seeking, and if you ask me about the success it will be like, how can you compare the competitive insights into a competitive advantage. Today, these playgrounds where we start blending the data can provide us with that. And something interesting too that I was thinking about was, in terms of this individual that freely transacts their data is actually market insights industry in the past, through the panels, are basically dealing with the consumer that’s pretty aware that it’s doing those transactions. 

It’s pretty different to the one that starts visiting Google, Facebook, or whatever that’s open see. In this case, we’ll check in with a particular group, that is pretty aware that is transacting this data through the incentives. They are choosing their own incentives, [AUDIO OUT] clear. The other part of the situation is that, hey who are these people, right? How does this group of people and definitely on the research side where we are paying for that transactions in terms of bias rise, we then have a huge problem and dealing with that. I need to do a lot of techniques to raise the quality to avoid this bias, but definitely we’re speaking with a small group of people. So, yeah we are pretty open to start exploring, to open this playground. 

Lenny Murphy: Right 

Nacho Racca: But yeah, we are waiting for that Lenny. 

Lenny Murphy: Well, we’re working on that too. But I think it brings up an interesting point though, so when Apple announced their, for data privacy, we’re going to shut down access to all of the metadata and behavioral data within our ecosystem, for data privacy. OK, thank you Apple. But at the same time, they’re launching their own ad network off of that data internally, right? And risk creating more silos, I guess that’s my concern. So I totally – everybody is building walled gardens, right? And that’s probably the right thing to do from an individualized audience, for lack of a better term for your subscribers, the users of Mercado Libre, for instance, having your walled garden, that’s great and it is going to enable protection. 

But the more we silo the data, then the more challenging it is to augment it to create more value at the individual level. So that certainly, I’m not here to talk about Veriglif per se, but that’s the thinking that at least I’ve had for years and Veriglif is simply an expression of that thinking. That we need to have, if data is the new oil, personal data is the new oil, that we need to have an Exchange Network that allows for that oil to flow, and to be connected, and to do that in a privacy-compliant way. And that is incredibly challenging in a variety of ways. The companies that have the best opportunity to do that, I think are platforms like yours, or the big tech companies. 

Actually, I was having a discussion yesterday with a hosting company that is launching a new browser and it’s a personal identity sovereign Data Browser and similar to, I don’t know if they have Brave in Latin America, but Brave is one example. There are duckduckgo, or some of these other solutions. Those things become really interesting because they’re built from the ground up with the consumer centricity first, consumer ownership. But with this idea of becoming a hub for other folks to plug into and for those data assets to plug into, that can break down some of the issues around the siloing. I think the most interesting piece of that is, and particularly in markets or areas where things are emerging, is that the revenue opportunity for consumers. 

So there’s a company here in the US called M4 and M4 is a mobile platform and they have attitudinal plus behavioral data. And for their behavioral data, I believe that the number is that they’re paying people $100 a month as a stipend for just access to that behavioral data, and then their functioning as kind of an agent in reselling that. And we’re seeing other thinking like that emerge as well, there’s, I forgot the name of the company at the UK. But they have standardized on their basic rate, is $15 an hour US for consumers to participate in research, basically minimum wage. 

And that’s the type of thinking that we need and really for your point, sorry I’m all over the place, I think I’m seeing tons of innovation from panel companies in the market research space that are redefining their relationship with consumers. Because you’re right, that we’re already used to that kind of transactional nature, right? But they’re starting to shift where it used to be. Panels make a lot of money, you know the margins on the panel business is huge. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, they’re paying for information, maybe they’re not paying that much or companies are not willing to pay that much money. 

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, I’m not going to cast stones, I get it. I understand. The good thing is that those companies are recognizing that the model, there’s room in the market to stop having sample being, samples are the foundation of research. If we don’t talk to consumers, we don’t get their data, we don’t have any activity. Our business doesn’t work. So, and it’s been a race to the bottom from a price standpoint for a long time, we’ve treated it as a commodity. That seems to be changing and even the companies that may have participated in that price war, just from a competitive standpoint, I get it, they don’t have a choice. 

We’re backing off from that now and we’re seeing some of those large companies, the leaders in the industry, embracing different thinking around this and experimenting. We’re seeing lots of emerging companies, here in the US a company called DISCO. DISCO again, a combination of a panel with behavioral data, primarily through the lens – it’s got an $84 million venture round. And they’re leading with this idea of consumer centricity and consumer ownership of the data and combining it in different ways, and venture capitalists. That’s a great indicator of something that, they’re paying attention to. 

Nacho Racca:  Yeah 

Lenny Murphy: Right, I mean they just pumped $84 million into this company. So, with a great valuation. So, everyone sees where the tide is going. There’s a lot of activity to get there and that’s exciting. Can I give a shout-out to Adriana Rocha at ABC global? The platform that she has built of I think of it as Facebook for research. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, I love eCGlobal, she built a social network – 

Lenny Murphy: Yes, she built Facebook. 

Nacho Racca: It’s not a panel. She built a social network for interacting better, knowing much better the audiences. So, yeah, we love that model. I think that it’s pretty clear that we are going that way. But definitely, the challenge is to start breaking those silos, those information silos, and bridge them right value resulting interaction and we need to unlock that value in some way. That’s our day-to-day. One of the things that we find out, is that we start playing with these types of projects internally blending and matching the behavioral data with internal data, with audio matching, plus surveys. We’ve done that and we integrate that information with actually what they are doing. But the major problem is the scale. 

Lenny Murphy: Yes. 

Nacho Racca: So, at the end, the machines are like, I don’t know, let’s say for them a project with 1,000 respondents, it’s more like a suite to those machines. It’s not a happy medium. 

Lenny Murphy: Right. 

[INTERPOSING VOICES] 

Lenny Murphy: A crumb. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, nice but that will never fit me and say, hey, OK how can we scale and bring some good food for these machines to include these insights. So, definitely you need to start building an insight platform that can provide the type of data that is useful for them with the correct ingredients. Yeah, so you can start feeding them. 

Lenny Murphy: Oh sorry Nacho, go ahead. 

Nacho Racca: Well, no I just had this thing that is going through my mind a lot of time. It’s like, how do you build an insight area today that definitely adds value to the company. Once I start thinking about that, I say, hey nature already sort this out. How you go and respond to a pretty challenging environment, how do you process that information, then how an insight area helps you strengthen your capabilities in terms of these types of, let’s use the Kahneman thing, the slow thinking within the company, and the fast thinking on the company. The slow thinking of the company is the traditional research, adding new information for these Illuminati people in the executive central, taking information from what they learned in the past, breaking the research studies, and definitely the insights area there is used to help in that way, right? 

But suddenly, the fast-thinking, the help of the insight area to the fast thinking of the company brings new challenges to the insight areas, brings the need of partners with the BI teams that stand. For instance, let’s say if the insight area is the eyes and the ears of the consumer relating to the competition and the experiences that they have. Then, you definitely need to be ready for trigger and have fast data processing of that information that is particularly specific, domain-specific let’s say, in cognitive psychology of the sensory memory, right? For me, that’s a pretty example of that, it will be the dashboards. 

So, definitely, the insight should start helping those BI teams that are already doing that for internal data, but to bring all the competitive information for a fast data processing that can help the ones that take decisions with a QA quick agile alert of what’s going on in the environment.

And at the same time, the other non-conscious let’s say, fast data processing that is represented by the models, the crystallized learnings of those machines. So how do I, my words, how do I bring all those competitive relative variables to start feeding those machines and start crystallizing new learnings from the consumer? So, yeah nature already sorted the problem out, but just find a way for the insight team to start helping, not only the slow, we are experts in the market insight area with the slow thinking, but to the fast, that are making everyday decisions. 

Lenny Murphy: Well, I think part of the challenge too is, I tend to think in systems, in how things are connected and the – 

Nacho Racca: Yeah 

Lenny Murphy: And so, we forget in these types of conversations, I think that there is also, there’s a cultural system that exists for an organization, as well as an organizational system as far as structure that can be barriers to this integrated holistic view. So, I love to quote Marc Pritchard, the CMO of Procter & Gamble because I think that he framed it up from that perspective, that macro perspective, and the quote is something of the effect that Procter & Gamble wants to have a one-to-one relationship in real-time with everybody on the planet. All right, so how do you do that? 

That makes perfect sense, and then if you take that other step down, I always think in terms of the marketing lifecycle is to engage, understand, and activate, and that’s a cycle that flows together. Within an organization, there’s different parts of the company that function to do each of those things, right? Engage, understand, activate. All of those are driven through by that real-time data component. So, to achieve that overarching goal of Procter & Gamble and I would add, they want that relationship so they can sell more stuff. I mean, that’s the bottom line. So, and that’s fine. So, how do you sell more stuff? 

You have that one relationship and the cycle is engage, understand, and activate. And now, where is the organizational – how do you take down the barriers culturally, structurally, and technologically to enable that system to flow. And again, I would argue that we already have great examples of that. So, if you understand your business I think of the Amazon of Latin America, in that bucket. 

Nacho Racca: Well, much better here. 

Lenny Murphy: [LAUGHING] Fair enough. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah 

Lenny Murphy: But it’s amazing that you’re doing those things, because you, and I would argue Amazon has done that well too, as has Facebook and we have these companies that have seen that vision of, how do you drive more value for the business? That you need to deconstruct the barriers of value creation. Those barriers of value creation, can’t typically say just a few silos of either organizational, cultural, or technological. The technology piece is easy, it really is. We have the technology. 

Nacho Racca: I jump in with one cultural problem that I see there into once you want to churn all this learning into the action represented by the segmentation audiences engagement models that are over there. Obviously, the objective of those models is to activate those insights and those learnings you have better audiences. I wonder if those problems that I see for the insight teams to enter there is that they raise, one was the scale that we already talked about. But the other one is the nature of the data we are collecting. They say, hey, people lie, people don’t – well, first of all, they had this intentional, right? 

Lenny Murphy: Intention versus actual. Yes. 

[INTERPOSING VOICES] 

Nacho Racca: People lie, well they are not – maybe they don’t know what they don’t know. Maybe our questions – I recognize our questions are still crappy, they didn’t evolve enough as they should. Maybe we still do not know the best way of asking the questions, that’s why people access to what they have in mind and they answer, they don’t have the intention to respond. I think that that’s one of those barriers that were seen to attitudinal data. Yeah, and at the end, they never took place in the room to show how much they increment the value. Like one of the – Yeah, sorry. 

Lenny Murphy: Sorry, my brain’s going, I don’t know – I think one interesting example though, is that, so yes, there’s that framing of the question of would you do this? That’s one way to do it. And we know that there’s a disconnect between intention and behavior, versus that predictive or projective question of what do you think your neighbor would do? I mean that question, that re-framing the question to take it out of disconnecting the system one and system two in your own brain about my own behavior, versus a projective technique of what I think other people will do. That has been shown coming on system one right-brained user back in the day. They’ve shown that to be highly effective, even political polling. 

There’s a company here in the US called Trafalgar group that, I don’t want to get into politics, but they use that in their polling question and it was far more accurate than the traditional polls were. You have to ask the question, there’s no way around it. To get there to have somebody use their predictive, there must be a survey. That’s the only instrument, to ask somebody, “What do you think?” 

Nacho Racca: It’s the way that they express the whole experience, right? We are used to listening to the steps, but definitely what they say, they should have value. Maybe you are saying similar steps for two different consumers. One loves you, while the other one is just a messenger. But at the end the final decision, the final steps were in the same way. So, yeah I’m confident that there should be value. At this stage, we are building the platform, just to start answering all these types of questions and I think that that’s one of the main challenges when you start through the path of innovation. 

We are achieving unlocking this possibility, we are finding new technologies for bringing more consumers, the voice of the consumers who to the machine. But then, I have one learning from the past from my father, he runs a software company. One of the major experiences that he has is that, they built a new technology, right? They have some software products that were the core business for businesses and suddenly they find out a new technology, a new way of doing things. The main learning was that, they spent like three, once they had the new technology, a new language, they spend like three years converting the old products to the new one because it was a little bit fast and they were about to get bankrupt. 

Why? Because during these three years, another place was seeing this technology and they started using this new technology for new solutions. So in the end, they found this new technology and they lost time replicating the old and trying to find the answers to their own questions. Now, this is the challenge that we have now. We start to unlock a new technology, a new way of seeing things, let’s start thinking which are the correct questions that we should do and we should have. Like for instance, I don’t know, I wouldn’t say we are now in that process, we don’t have that clear now. That’s the funny part of the playground that we have now, but is to understand which are those new questions. 

I don’t know, the most accessible now for me, but it’s not the more interesting one but it’s like, which is the incremental value of one point scale of RAM power. That will be the easiest part. If you’re still in the model RAM power or whatever, top of mind, competitive. Now you have the ability to say, which is the incremental value of a better targeted. At the end, which is the value of those insights. But then you realize, this is maybe an old question? Now that you have all these powers, which are those new questions that we should answer, that we should love the full power of it. And we have the advantage to do these heavy testings, test control, and to see which different models bring the most incremental value. 

There are the audiences that are achieved through these EPA-privatized models or that we have a lot of new information of all these consumers. So you shape through the seeds and the look-alike of the machine. You build this new audience that is powered by new insights, brings more money to the company to the oldest model. Well, we have the techniques, we have the technology to do that. But I still think that we are exploring which are the correct questions to address. 

Lenny Murphy: Well, it’s fantastic. I will be conscious of time, not because I want to derail everybody else, because you and I think we could go on like this for a really long time. Next time we could just do the Nacho Lenny event, right? We could talk about these things but – 

Nacho Racca: No

Lenny Murphy: I want to give a shout-out to you. I mean, I know your journey from supplier to client-side. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah 

Lenny Murphy: Because that’s the key to these changes. Are folks like you on the client-side, advocating for these changes because they create value for the organization? Then the opportunity for suppliers is to step up and help. You set the challenge, you say here’s what I want to achieve. I want this integrated view of data across multiple touchpoints so we can deliver a better experience for our consumers. Suppliers, step up, get creative help me do this and that’s how the industry can survive. 

Nacho Racca: Yeah, definitely we’re open to new business models because definitely, we need to reshape that and if we want to answer new questions, we’ll need to challenge the previous business models. So the challenge will be, we open enough trust that we are sure we’re in the correct path to make you grow as we are growing too. So, yeah, be confident that we are in the same line. 

Lenny Murphy: Well Nacho, thank you for having the idea of inviting me. to the audience – 

Nacho Racca: For me, it’s the greatest pleasure to be – 

Lenny Murphy: Well me too. 

Nacho Racca: I have great admiration, so thank you very much Lenny for the opportunity. 

Lenny Murphy: No, thank you guys and for the IIeX LATAM audience, thank you for being here. Thank you to sponsors, Nacho, Alex, you know all the folks behind the scenes, Raffa. Rafa, how did I forget you Rafa? Thank you for pulling all this off. Hopefully, next time I could be in person. That’d be cool. All right, thank you Nacho. Thank you everybody. 

Nacho Racca: Bye bye. 

Lenny Murphy: All right, be well. Bye bye.