Igniting Curiosity: Insights, Innovations, and Ethics in Market Research

Check out the full episode below! Enjoy the Exchange? Don't forget to tune in live every Friday at 12 pm EST on the Greenbook LinkedIn, Facebook, and Youtube Channel! 

Karen and Lenny ignite the spark of curiosity in the realm of market research, building anticipation for the forthcoming IIEX North America event in Austin. Their enthusiasm radiates as they outline event preparations, urging listeners to secure their spots using the Exchange30 code and teasing a tantalizing surprise announcement on the horizon. Stressing the importance of feedback, they set the stage for a collaborative and insightful gathering. Transitioning seamlessly, they delve into the pulsating pulse of industry happenings. From prestigious award ceremonies to strategic mergers and acquisitions, the duo navigates through the dynamic landscape, spotlighting significant events like the Marketing Research Education Foundation's annual affair. Innovations take the spotlight, with discussions on groundbreaking products like Neurons' AI copilot and Qualify AI's pioneering strides in qualitative research automation.

Karen then steers the conversation towards the regulatory seas, shedding light on Utah's groundbreaking legislation and the intricate maze of data privacy regulations. Infusing humor into the discourse, they navigate the complexities of federal privacy legislation, drawing parallels to a thought-provoking Gizmodo article. In a reflective turn, Lenny leads the charge into the ethical heart of market research, spurred by Bob Moran's compelling insights. With candid anecdotes and introspective musings, they navigate the ethical tightrope, championing integrity and responsibility in research practices.

As the episode draws to a close, Karen and Lenny offer a tantalizing peek into the future, unveiling intriguing articles and upcoming IIEX presentations. From harnessing qualitative data in the age of big data to the innovative ventures of the New York Times, anticipation swells for the enlightening discussions that lie ahead, especially those promised by BET on advertising measurement.

Many thanks to our producer, Karley Dartouzos. 

Use code EXCHANGE30 to get a 30% discount on your general admission IIEX tickets!

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Transcript 

Lenny Murphy: We're ready. We did it.

Karen Lynch: We were so ready. We stopped talking three seconds ago. Hi, everybody.

Lenny Murphy: Hi, everybody. Happy Friday. Welcome to this week's exchange. Busy week.

Karen Lynch: Uh, so, and you know, I just wrapped up a call with somebody who was, they were trying to figure out if we should schedule, if she should schedule the call with me for today or wait till Monday. And I said, what the world doesn't know is that the core team arrives in Austin on Sunday. So we are, we are, you know, we, Well beyond the immersion into all things IIX North America at this point. So, um, so yeah, looking forward to traveling and getting there and being with the core team and having a good couple of days of setup before the big events.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be amazing. I guess, well, we had said we'd do this at the end, but I guess Carly, once you pop up, there we go.

Karen Lynch: Watch till the end, which you can do right now.

Lenny Murphy: Last call. Um, If you have not booked, you still can, you can still register, go to IX North America in Austin. Use the Exchange 30 code. I pulled the numbers yesterday. It looks like we're well over 1,000 attendees and still pretty amazed by the quality and everything. Yeah, you all, you need to be there. If you can't, then go to IX Europe or IX Latin.

Karen Lynch: Yes, for sure. Because the code will get you into any of the events. And I understand for some people who may be in other regions of the world and still listening to us here, North America may not be the most convenient event to get to. Or they just can't swing it at this point. But yeah, there's other places. But nothing quite as special as North America. I mean, I think it's just a special place to be.

Lenny Murphy: And without giving too much away, you should probably go to Austin.

Karen Lynch:  and experience Austin this year. This would be a great year to experience Austin if you never have, and may never again.

Lenny Murphy: We have a secret. 

Karen Lynch: We're not telling.

Lenny Murphy: We're not telling. We're not telling, but you'll hear about it next week. All right, let's jump in.

Karen Lynch: That was fun. What we really want is the world saying, where could they possibly be going? But that's not our story to tell, right?

Lenny Murphy: Not today, at least.

Karen Lynch: Not today, at least. But speaking of that, I do want to say for people listening early next Friday, Lenny and I will not be doing this. As you know, IIX North America is Wednesday and Thursday, and Friday is our team's day to recover and share some experiences and share some meals and really decompress after a pretty intense week. So Friday is all green book. Green book in the little bubble that we're going to create for ourselves that day. So we will not be doing the exchange next week. We're keeping each other all to ourselves.

Lenny Murphy: But we'll be back the week after.

Karen Lynch: We will be back the week after, for sure.

Lenny Murphy: So you get a break from us next week. We'll miss you.

Karen Lynch: Hopefully you'll miss us. But please, if you are in North America, come up and tell us how you're feeling about this particular broadcast. Let us know what your thoughts are. Any one of us will be at the Green Book Lounge. Much of the day, which is really by the Green Book help desk. So you can find it that way. There's always going to be some of our team there. And you can just say, hey, I really just want to give you feedback on this product. We'd be really grateful for that as we, you know, look at our programming through the end of our first year, because this summer we're going to be celebrating a year of this. So cool stuff.

Lenny Murphy: All right. Well, shall we jump into the news?

Karen Lynch: Yeah, let's jump into the news. But let's start with some lighthearted, feel-good things. I think that one of the things we wanted to talk about was the Marketing Research Education Foundation's annual event, their Race Around the World for Education event that kicks off. It takes place in May. It's aimed at raising funds to provide education for underprivileged children globally, hosted by the Marketing Research Education Foundation. So we'll share that link. Check it out. You can join as a team. It's virtual participation. You know, you can, you can join any number of teams that are doing this, but it's basically, you know, clock your miles and share them. There's a portal that you can log in and say, Hey, this is how far I've gone. Um, and I think you can really, you can walk, you can run, you can bike. It's, it's really just let's, let's, let's move on behalf of children everywhere.

Lenny Murphy: So really great organization. And lots of folks are involved with that, but I believe it was the brainchild of Steve Schlesinger, if I'm not mistaken. I don't want to take credit away from anybody, but I always associate Steve with it, so.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, so there's that. And then this other, you know, important kind of milestone is that the applications are open for the QRCA's Insights Association and REBA's kind of collaboration on the Naomi Henderson Legacy Awards. So recognizing outstanding achievement and dedication to qualitative research in honor of Naomi, who if you don't know Naomi or didn't know Naomi, she was not just a pioneer in the industry, but an amazing human being. Anyway, I could, I could, I could gush about her and get pretty emotional too. So, so I won't, but, but yeah, it's a, it's a great award and you should, you should consider getting in there or nominating someone to get in there.

Lenny Murphy: Yep. All right.

Karen Lynch: And then, Yeah, take it away. Now this is the portion of the program where we shift gears from some feel-good stuff to some mergers, some acquisitions, some funding, the stuff that we should all know about.

Lenny Murphy: Yep, yep. So one of the interesting ones that popped out at me was Hootsuite acquiring Talkwalker. And I've been a Hootsuite user since, gosh, like 20, well, since they launched.

Karen Lynch: Since they launched, right? In the early 2000s, that is how those of us who are on multimedia, I mean, multi-social media platforms at once, Hootsuite was what we used. And you had, you know, you had your, on your monitor, you just had all the different channels and you could track what you were posting where and what was coming in where. It was a platform that was open all day for me at that time, I assume for you as well.

Lenny Murphy: Absolutely. It still is. Um, the, uh, even though I'm not nearly as active on multiple social media channels, I used to be, but what, what, so what is interesting though, is it was a functional utility. Yeah. Um, that I would argue was probably on the verge of maybe being displaced, um, because of you know, generative AI, some of the platforms that are emerging there, you know, our friends at Sparky, blah, blah, lots of different examples of companies that kind of did the same stuff.

Lenny Murphy: So buying Talkwalker, which is a social media analytics and monitoring platform, and now integrating that in to make it more of a, you truly, you're, it's not just measuring, and it's not just deploying your, your, your outputs, but getting all of those inputs back in and as an intelligence solution, I think is really powerful. And I saw that and thought, all right, that that's great. And then a great, so a great example of a company kind of reinventing itself into something new and expanding the usability and utility and Now, maybe there'll be an IX next year, right? I mean, they would be that... Coming into our side of the world.

Karen Lynch: I think one of the things in this article or this release that was shared on MRWeb is the idea that they've always been listening, but now they have the analytics to go along with that listening functionality. I think that what we need to be paying attention to is what the analytics are right now as our industry oozes into a different playing field.

Lenny Murphy: Really interesting. Another thing you caught around was Accenture continuing their buying spree With companies with a research capability. So they acquired unlimited group And This is all going as part of Accenture song, which is really their kind of marketing and analytics division within Accenture but they they continue and buying research suppliers and, or a variety of insight suppliers, if I have a better way to say it, and market organizations or hybrids like, like Unlimited Group, because they, Unlimited Group owns Walnut. And so shout out to, to Walnut, which were pioneers in applied neuroscience, behavioral science in, in research. So, the big consultancies continue to make waves and think about how they transform their businesses as well, when intelligence can be.

Karen Lynch: No worries. There we go. All the way, stay.

Lenny Murphy: Just, no worries. I've got Bowie behind me, so.

Karen Lynch: You're two minutes away from a Golden Retriever jumping on my lap, and I just need to say, I'm right here.

Lenny Murphy: Don't freak out.

Karen Lynch: It's all right. Let it happen.

Lenny Murphy: The, so anyway, just be aware of, right, there's this other group that the large consultancies, strategy consultancies that have been building capabilities for years and play in this arena as both buyers and suppliers. And now we're seeing a little more overt activity coming from Accenture.

Karen Lynch: Yeah. And also, you know, the, the focus being on both AI and behavioral science, which makes perfect sense, logical sense, like, yes, those are two areas in particular, you're, you know, kind of venturing into this insight space, like, yeah, that's what really want to you know, where, where it makes sense to lean into those two spaces. Collectively, it's great.

Lenny Murphy: Yep. Follow the money. If you guys don't want to start with this stuff, because they're, these are leading indicators, right, of where To do a merger, do an acquisition, takes funding. They're not just paying out of their pockets, there's banks, there's et cetera, et cetera. People are betting in certain directions.

Karen Lynch: People whose job it is to know where to place the bets. That's why we follow the money in that way. It's because they know things that we are paying attention to and wanting to learn ourselves.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, where's the ball going to be? Right? These are examples of where people think, you know, maybe they could be wrong. But that's why we bring up this stuff. So continue to pay attention to those things. So and it's also changing the dynamic of the ecosystem of the, you know, what the industry looks like,

Karen Lynch: Yeah, yeah. Speaking of what the industry looks like, let's also talk about some product launches, right? Because I think, you know, this is good stuff. I love this, this neuron edition, you know, kind of adding AI copilot, which, you know, I'm like, most people know what a copilot is, right? But perhaps not, I'm not really sure. But, you know, to kind of optimize creativity in the work that they do, which I like, that's great. Good for you, neurons. So good stuff. You can tell me more, most likely.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, well, you know, Thomas Ramsey and, uh, and his team, uh, I mean, Thomas was, uh, has been a pioneer in not supplied neuroscience, but also, yeah, they, they early on built an early stage AI solution for visual intensity measurement.

Karen Lynch: And that's been a product I've been using for a long time.

Lenny Murphy: Um, the, uh, which is, and they've just grown and built off of that data to now incorporate LLMs into. More suggestions were kind of the early stage product measured, duplicated where the eye would be drawn without a human needing to be involved. And now they're making recommendations based on all of their data on changing creative to increase engagement, etc, etc. Yeah, great, great solution. Couldn't happen to nicer folks. I mean, I like everybody in the industry. Thomas, we're friends. I like Thomas. We've been friends for a long time. Cool to see him continuing to kind of build out that vision.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, you know, and also, we're big fans of people who are bright and bringing, you know, you could probably like, you know, make a lot of money off of dimes in a jar each time I say true thought leadership, but Thomas certainly brings true thought leadership every time he takes the stage. You know, bright, bright people. Anyway, I have mad respect for that. So cool stuff. So I don't know if you know, you know, these two individuals, these industries, that's Jim Fawkes and Richard Owen, but they're veterans from Firefish and CrowdLab. Do you know them both? Do you know about them?

Lenny Murphy: We have corresponded. Never met them. But, you know, Firefish, a big, big quall shop in the UK.

Karen Lynch: So why don't you talk about Yeah, so they've launched Qualify AI. So new company focused on automating qual using AI with the mission to automate qualitative research without stripping it of its humanity, which I think anybody who's been paying attention to this and said, you know, it's hard to, to do qual at scale, it's hard to get it to be automated, because the whole Um, kind of spirit of qualitative is, you know, depth conversations with individuals to really understand why they say the things they say and how well can I really assist with that? Um, how good is it at doing that? So, yeah, so they have this mission to make it automated to make it. Make it something that can be done at scale faster and without losing the integrity of the methodology itself. Anyway, they've launched and we'll have to check it out because we just found out about that launch this week.

Lenny Murphy: Absolutely. Probably point out, we are seeing more and more applications around AI in what we would normally think of as the qualitative arena than anything else. The era of scalable qual, Yeah, it's here guys. It's here. This is just one example of how technology has unlocked that capability. Yeah, and I think it's, it's hugely cool that, to your point, to, to, it's almost, it's almost like this is the point of the singularity, right, through qualitative research of the human and the machine in terms of capabilities. And it's a great use case. So, and when you see folks like Jim and Richard, they've been doing this for a long time, you know, jumping on to, to that and pioneering it. Again, follow the ball. These guys know what they're talking about. They've been doing qual forever, so.

Karen Lynch: So I'm gonna sidebar, go back to North America and plug the great presentation that I will be facilitating next week. Findings from the executive summary of the Insights Practice Report. And one of the things that I read in there that we discussed briefly yesterday was the number of qualitative researchers who are leaning into other tools, features, platforms, and other ways of doing what they do. And I was really heartened to see that. Like, nope, they will not fall behind, right? They're leaning into kind of the tech evolution of the field. So anyway, that just gave me kind of an uplifting feel like, you know, Yeah, you do what you do, and now you do it with stronger tools and see where we go with it. So anyway, come to my particular presentation to learn more about that one. I think it's gonna be cool, and that's one little spoiler alert that we'll talk about.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, yeah, and to build on that, I mean, that's gonna be a theme through the whole report, which should be published, I think we're planning on early May right now. Yeah, yeah. God willing the creeks don't rise.

Karen Lynch: I love that little, so that the creeks don't rise. That's just not something you hear in the north. That's a southern thing.

Lenny Murphy: So I have to cross over. We have a creek on our property, plus to get off our road either way, we have to cross four bridges over creeks. So it's a very real thing.

Karen Lynch: Oh my gosh, that's great. Anyway, continue. I'm sorry. I digressed.

Lenny Murphy: Anyway, we digress.

Karen Lynch: Yes. I am a words person. I do like words. So when I hear a figure of speech that I hadn't heard before, I'm going to have to pause on it.

Lenny Murphy: That's just what I do. I'll say it the right way. God willing, and the creeks don't rise. That is the appropriate way to say it.

Karen Lynch: Well, bless your heart. Let's go. I stay with no disdain.

Lenny Murphy: I actually, although you know, in the South, that is taken as an insult as well. Bless your heart. That can be like, you're so full of crap.

Karen Lynch: Yes, yes. No, I just somebody shared with me. I'm sorry. We're totally done. Somebody shared with me like who was it? It was somebody up at Susan Newhouse. Oh my gosh. Shout out to my good friend Susan Newhouse shared with me last year at the Creative Problem Solving Institute. All like a social media meme. It must have been on TikTok like all the different intonations of bless your heart or bless their heart and what the interpretation of each is. So anyway, If I find it, I'll share it with Carly and she can put it out there in this thing.

Lenny Murphy: There you go. It is definitely one of those things you pay attention to. There's multiple meanings.

Karen Lynch: What a fun little moment. Where were we? What were you talking about?

Lenny Murphy: We're about to get into regulatory and ethical considerations in AI.

Karen Lynch: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, let's get into this because I thought this was interesting. So, you know, Utah, I'm like, they lead the way. This was just really interesting to me. Utah has a new law that mandates consumer disclosures when interacting with AI, prohibiting blaming AI for violations of consumer protection laws. So, like, you can't be ignorant. If your AI does something, it is your fault. So for those people who are building in AI functions, this is just the start. They're just the first state to do this, right?

Karen Lynch: But companies will not be able to use the excuse, but I did that, not us. It's your AI. You're accountable and responsible. I really like this law. I'm excited. I'm excited that we're going to be acting at the state level for consumer protection.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah. Yeah. So let's broaden that out just a little bit. One, researchers, if you are engaged in utilizing AI to assist in an interview in some form or fashion, and there's some flaw in AI either in the discourse or in the backend data and the protection of the data, you can't blame it. There's no excuse, at least in Utah. And you need to be conscious of that. I mean, it's becoming a very complex patchwork of both countries and in the US state rules and regulations that have to do with personal data privacy. And it's not so cut and dried as, oh, we have this great secure database. We don't know some of the vulnerabilities that may exist in some of the LLMs. It's still early. So be conscious. There's some of these things have teeth and it is our responsibilities business owners and as an industry to To factor this in as we're going going forward and it's gonna become a pain in the butt to navigate Our friends, this is what SMAR and the Insights Association and the trade orgs are for, is to help navigate and do this. And I know that Melanie and her team are going to be on top of this. Pay attention, because we can't just assume that one size fits all anymore.

Karen Lynch: It's not. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, really important stuff. Sidebar, we don't have the link, but it's big enough that you can all look it up. I've been listening to a series on the Ezra Klein podcast. Ezra Klein is with the New York Times, for those of you who don't know. Anyway, a great series this week, launching on AI, starting with the episode, like, how you use it, and then there's like a three-part, you know, it's like in three parts. It's kind of a good primer of what you should be doing to be using it right now, what you need to be mindfully aware of, and then where our future is going on this exponential curve. And that's the one I haven't gotten to yet. But anyway, a little sidebar for you there. It's good listening if you're interested. Are we talking about AI again? Here we go.

Lenny Murphy: There we go, there we go. Not so much this week though, not so much.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, I know, a little less, so we'll stick away. But let's stay with the privacy thing because this Gizmodo read that you found on data privacy legislation was also a good one. I hadn't seen this one, but I don't know all of the details, but there's a quote in this article that I think is really fascinating. So the article is, there's one big problem with the new federal data privacy bill. So we just talked about the state level. There's also things happening at the federal level and explores the ongoing challenges and historical context of creating effective federal data privacy legislation in the U.S. So it's a big topic to wrangle. This particular piece does a really good job with it. Did you see this quote?

Lenny Murphy: I did. Why don't you read it out for the listeners? So the author says, well, in 2024, it is possible that we may finally get a strong federal privacy law. I'll say it again. It's possible. It's also technically possible that frogs could rain from the sky over lower Manhattan, coating New Yorkers in a spring shower of amphibious guts. But is that actually likely to happen? So it's just a hilarious analogy of these things are all possible, but are they likely? And so anyway, it's just another good take on privacy laws and the ethical considerations of all this.

Karen Lynch: And anyway, good stuff if this is something you're interested in, check these topics out.

Lenny Murphy: It is and back to our previous point right the I mean we we live in a federal system each state Uh, you know, uh enacts their own laws functions for our friends in europe. Basically each state in the u.s functions as a country. Yeah, um, uh, and you're kind of our own version of the EU, right?

Karen Lynch: That's the analogy.

Lenny Murphy: 

Um, but there's not a It's hard to do nationwide laws here. Yeah, um and in states Many of them are going to enact their own and they'll be similar, but in some cases they may be radically different. My bet is that laws in Utah versus laws in California or New York are going to be different because the populations are different and the mindsets are different, et cetera, et cetera. So again, patchwork. Not that that's as good, bad, or indifferent. It's the way it is. You have to navigate it and understand it.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, exactly. No, very good point. This is what it is. So how do we navigate? I think this is a great overarching reality for us to all embrace. This is what it is. Let's embrace it.

Lenny Murphy: All right. There's a couple last three that are more just content we found really interesting. This first one, if I can- Yeah, please go.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, go.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, so my good, good friend, Bob Moran. He is a partner in the Brunswick Group Strategic Excellency. I'm sure if you would have been here, well, Bob, Bob is I consider him one of my mentors. Um, the, uh, we have, we've kind of grown up together in the industry and both kind of like thinking about big picture stuff and he's just an incredibly smart and insightful guy. Uh, and anyway, he wrote a piece that I was just incredibly compelling. Um, the moral case for and against market research. And I saw that and I thought, what? So I don't know about you, But there are times that I have engaged in projects over the years that, or had the opportunity to engage in projects that I said, I can't do this. I'm not gonna feel good about doing this. I don't wanna use my powers for evil from a personal perspective. And there's others that I've been incredibly thrilled with, like I made a real difference in doing that. And I expect all of us at some point, have that line, that personal line, right? Now, Bob takes that to the macro level. Our job is to get people to buy more stuff, whatever that stuff is, whether it's an idea or a product, et cetera, et cetera. I'm an ardent capitalist. But there is another point, there is another level where I've had to acknowledge, boys, really kind of my job is to manipulate people into doing what the hell I want them to do.

Karen Lynch: And is that OK?

Lenny Murphy: And Bob kind of takes that tack of like, look, we need to weigh this out.

Karen Lynch: There's all these benefits of what we do. But there's another lens where it's like- It's interesting because, yes, at the end of the day, you're trying, depending on what area you work in, right? So I just did a memory scan. I'm like, I don't think I've been involved in anything that I would classify as evil. Is it opportunistic on behalf of companies to learn how to better market to people? Yes. Much of the work that I've had the privilege of doing was really about meeting needs. I've been very fortunate in my space to really be understanding consumer needs and pain points and meeting those. So I've been able to mostly tell myself that the work that I did was actually good and not necessarily manipulation. I did have a period of time in the 2000s when I was fighting cancer and had this need to step back to say, and I'll say the phrase quite candidly, like, I just don't give a shit if anybody ever buys a Pop-Tart again. It was like, I just, I can't keep working for those sorts of things. And the equivalent of somebody on stage at IAX Europe last year said, like, nope, this is not the time to talk to us about how to sell more candy in Ukraine. Like, there are times when you can't wrangle consumerism, right, that you are a part of that machine of buy more, buy more, buy more. So I think that's more relatable to me. And I think probably a lot of our listeners could right now take a little side excursion into their own brains about where they have been on the morality scale. So it's interesting and thought-provoking, right?

Lenny Murphy: Right, right. That's right. It's just a really interesting read for a part that we don't talk about that often. And to be clear, Bob lands on the side of research.

Karen Lynch: We land on the side of research. I was making this assumption that everybody knew that. Anyway, but yes.

Lenny Murphy: But like anything, it's a reminder that we need to use our powers for good because we do have immense powers. We do.

Karen Lynch: I mean, I remember years ago, and I forget which company I was working for at the time, but have we talked about this? Philip Morris was a client, and we were just really trying to understand where we stand on the sale of cigarettes. This was, I mean, we're going back to the 90s, right? So where do we stand on this? What do we do here? Because this is a hard thing, and I imagine, through the years there have been people, and I know even just within the last few years when people were doing like cannabis research and they're trying to understand where do I personally stand on this particular topic or category or industry, can I do this work with a clean conscience? That is universal whether you're in it or not.

Lenny Murphy: Yeah, absolutely. There are topics and segments that I personally, just for me as an individual, I will not engage in. Because I need to sleep at night, right? And I get that the clients may think they're doing good, that's okay. I don't. So.

Karen Lynch: Right, and I think that's at a very individual level. I think that there are, I was at a company that refused, they were like, I just don't think we wanna do cannabis research. That's just not something we want to do. And then there are other people that are like, oh, I'm all in. So that's just a current example of, you know, the tobacco industry and the alcohol industry and a lot of vice industries, gambling, you know, there's, I've met insights professionals who work for lottery agencies. And, you know, there's, there's real consequences to that work for human beings, and they all must all struggle with some decisions. Anyway, I'm on, I'm totally digressed.

Lenny Murphy: So we'll come back.

Karen Lynch: It was just an interesting thing, right?

Lenny Murphy: Check it out. Bob is a great writer and he knows his stuff. And this was just a really interesting perspective from Industry Luminary. So, all right, we have two more.

Karen Lynch: Let's just share the last two articles without getting too in-depth because they were interesting. One of them was this Forbes piece on how marketers are using qualitative data in the age of big data and AI. I mean, the topic itself is explanatory. Have a read if that's interesting to you. It was a Forbes article and it was out like the last week of March. So I don't want it to be too dated. I want to share it now because we won't meet again for two weeks and by then that'll be old news, right?

Lenny Murphy: Check that one out.

Karen Lynch: And this other one, I couldn't access this one because it was on a paywall, but the ARF article that you found on the Benefits of Understanding Consumers' Values headline.

Lenny Murphy: Yep. The ARF, Advertising Research Foundation, does lots of research on research. And they're exceptional for that. And this was more research they've recently done. Uh, from demographic to psychographic and emotional targeting in marketing for improved consumer engagement and effectiveness. Advertising research, right?

Karen Lynch: This is what they do.

Lenny Murphy: So, uh, and this was, you know, the, the idea of, of understanding values and the other dimension, the, uh, you know, just showing how, how broad our, uh, our industry is getting as far as the types of things that we measure and the insight that we deliver.

Karen Lynch: Yeah, gosh, I'm so psyched. Last plug and then we'll go because it's time to wrap. I preview all the presentations at IAX just to make sure there's nothing that's glaring or upsetting or, you know, anyway, inappropriate. There's two that I reviewed this morning. One, we have the New York Times. They're actually somebody from their advertising department, and they're going to be talking to us about their new gaming, right? Their new, like, growth in the gaming apps. Anybody who's ever played Wordle or the Mini or, oh my gosh, the new one, which is strands, I think, like, anyway, so we'll be talking about that. And then, you know, BET is going to be talking a little bit about it, too. So just so you know, if you're in that space, the advertising measurement space, we're talking about those two. So good stuff is happening at IAX. I'm really wishing I'm all about it all the time right now.

 Lenny Murphy: Well, absolutely, as it should be. So on that note, go, I'm sure that your, your schedule is packed. Go get stuff done so you can get on that plane on Sunday.

Karen Lynch: I will, and I will see everybody there. Lenny, I will talk to you from the road.

Lenny Murphy: Yes, absolutely. Everybody will be well. We'll miss you next week. We'll be back the week after and enjoy IEX and or whatever you're not doing, although if you're not at IX, you're just making a mistake.

Karen Lynch: You even exist. Are you even real?

Lenny Murphy: We're not biased. Not at all. That's it.

Karen Lynch: Everybody will be well. Take care.

Lenny Murphy: Bye-bye.

Karen Lynch: Bye, everybody.