Building Insights & Trust at SimpliSafe with Bethan Blakeley

In this episode of the Greenbook Podcast, host Karen Lynch sits down with Bethan Blakeley, Research & CX Manager at SimpliSafe UK, to discuss her journey from agency-side researcher to client-side insights leader. Bethan shares what it’s like to be a research team of one, balancing strategic priorities with stakeholder demands, and how she builds trust with both agencies and internal partners.

She also opens up about work-life balance as a parent of two, the importance of transparent communication, and why trust is at the heart of successful client–agency partnerships. From shaping TV ad campaigns to instilling customer-centricity across her organization, Bethan reveals how insights come to life when researchers are empowered.

Key Discussion Points:

• Transitioning from agency to client side and lessons learned.
• Building insights functions as a team of one at SimpliSafe UK.
• Why trust and transparent communication are essential in client–agency relationships.
• Balancing stakeholder priorities while driving strategic research.
• Navigating parental leave, work-life balance, and modeling healthy boundaries.

Resources & Links:

• SimpliSafe UK
• SimpliSafe US
• Zappi
• AURA UK

You can reach out to Bethan Blakeley on LinkedIn.

Many thanks to Bethan Blakeley for being our guest. Thanks also to our production team and our editor at Big Bad Audio.

Transcript

Karen: Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Greenbook Podcast. I’m your host today, Karen Lynch, and I’m here with Bethan Blakeley. She is the research and CX manager at a company called SimpliSafe in the UK. And I have to just say, I’m a SimpliSafe customer, so when I kind of came across Bethan in my, you know, travels online, I was like, oh, I’d love to talk about SimpliSafe. I’m going to let her introduce the product and what it is, actually, that the company does, but first, I want to take a moment Bethan and say, welcome to the Greenbook Podcast. 

Bethan: Thank you very much for having me.

Karen: It’s such a pleasure to be talking to you. So, why don’t you, before we even get into kind of you and your role, take a minute and do the, what even is SimpliSafe? Because we know it’s an alarm system in our house that my husband actually installed himself because he’s tech-forward that way, and I thought, all right, you know, this is a thing that we do now. But tell people a little bit more about the brand and the company, and then we’ll talk about you specifically.

Bethan: Yeah, sure. So, SimpliSafe have been in the States for quite a number of years now, but have only been in the UK about four or five years. We’re quite new over here. And so, we sell home security systems, and then we also offer subscription abilities on top of those systems so that you can have a professional monitoring center, kind of, look over those systems for you and react to any alarms that might go off and you know, are able to dispatch help. So, it’s kind of like a middleman there, able to help you out.

Karen: Yeah, which we subscribe to as well because we were sort of like, yes, what’s the point of having the alarm if there isn’t somebody monitoring it when you’re not home? So [laugh]— 

Bethan: Yeah.

Karen: Anyway, it’s really cool. And I was joking before we actually logged in, it reminds you of its brand name when you set it, so it’s like, you’ll do the code, and it says, “SimpliSafe away,” if you’re leaving the house, or, “SimpliSafe home,” if you’ve come back home. So, it’s a constant reminder of the brands that we have. So anyway, we’re thrilled. It works very well, and you know—I’ll do the plug—look into it. It’s very cool. And it tells us when the batteries gave—

Bethan: [crosstalk 00:02:27] well, yeah. 

Karen: I know. I know. Brand fans [laugh]. I love—full disclosure, I love to have brands that I use, people representing brands that I use on the show because I do gush quite a bit. So anyway, all right, enough about just your company. Talk to us a little bit about yourself, your background, you know, tell us your personal brand story about how you ended up where you are now.

Bethan: Yeah, sure. So, my background is initially in maths and stats. I’m a bit of a numbers geek. So, I did maths at university, did a masters in operational research and statistics, which is kind of what they called data science, before data science was a thing. And then through that masters, I found, you know, the, kind of, field of doing research analytics, essentially, through the reading and things I was doing for my dissertation, and that’s what got me into the market research field. So, I know most people say, you know, I fell into it accidentally. I’m actually not one of those people. I looked for it, and I purposefully put myself in that sphere. So, I started out on the purely analytical side of it, and then quickly found out that I’m too nosy and too people-focused for that, so I now kind of straddle all three in terms of the qual, quant, and the analytics. I’ve spent most of my career agency-side, so probably about 12, 13 years or so agency-side, and this is my first client side role now. So, I’ve been with SimpliSafe for about a year. 

Karen: So, congratulations. I think that there’s a lot of people listening that would be like, ooh, I’d love to make that transition, right? Kind of, once you get to the brand side, you know—if we go, even though it’s more—like, it can be a spectrum—once you get there, it’s sort of like, you’re at the top of the research ecosystem food chain, right? So, what was that transition like for you to suddenly be client-side after serving clients for so long?

Bethan: It was scary, you know, I’m not going to lie about that. But I wanted something that was out of my comfort zone. That was the main driver in changing, really. You know, I was getting to that point in my career where I was seeing quite a few of the same projects kind of come in and come around, and although you’re doing them for different clients, a lot of the business problems that companies are facing are quite similar. And I was also getting to the point where I had the confidence and I had the kind of gravitas, I suppose, and the expertise to be able to stand up and deliver insights to C-suite, you know, audiences and have strategic conversations about where they should go. But obviously, when you're agency-side, there’s only so far you can push that because that part of the role falls to the brand-side researchers. So, all of those things kind of came together and then kind of got me looking at making that switch. So, it felt very odd to begin with, and I, you know, found myself kind of falling back into old habits, as it were. But I feel like I’m starting to find my feet a little bit now.

Karen: That’s awesome. And I love that. As you’re as you were speaking, I was thinking, agencies really do offer the unique opportunity for researchers to develop those skills that you were talking about, to become versed in strategy and strategic thinking. That’s probably something that is very unique to work on the agency side, the ability to kind of make those recommendations and be bold and grow that confidence that brought you to where you are. So, you know, it’s, I think, probably solid for people to look at it that way. You know, like, develop some skills and confidence and ability to, you know, be convicted in what you’re learning, and then, yeah, you know, start to look around and take that leap. One of the things that you have mentioned is that it was an exciting kind of shift, especially because there is this startup nature to SimpliSafe. And it’s interesting because you talk about how long it’s been around, but define that for me a little bit more. What is that startup energy that attracted you? And let’s talk about why it was attractive. 

Bethan: Yeah, so a lot of my agency-side career as well. I’ve been in smaller agencies, which I’ve loved. You know, again, I’m very nosy, I like to kind of get involved in everything, I’m always having ideas that are maybe a little bit odd, and the thing about a small team is that you get a lot of support for that because there’s less red tape, there’s less bureaucracy, you know, there’s fewer processes and things in place that you have to follow. There’s more hats that you have to wear. You kind of find yourself doing really odd things now and again that shouldn’t really fall into your job description, but I love that variety as well. And I always say, with SimpliSafe in the UK, I feel like I’m in the best position possible because the team in the US is brilliant, they’re really established, they’re quite large—there’s probably about 12 of them in the insights team over in the US—they’ve got expertise, you know, throughout the field, and they’ve been going for a long time, so they’ve done a lot of research and a lot of different areas. So, I often find myself talking to the team and saying, you know, “Have you done anything on X, Y, Z? Can we chat about it?” Et cetera, et cetera. But on the UK side of things, I’m the first insight hire, and I’m a team of one. So, although I’ve got that support there from the US, there’s no expectations for me to use it if I don’t want to, there’s no expectations for me to follow the same roadmap they did, or do the same things, or, you know, any of that. The resources are there, but if I want to ignore them completely and start from scratch, then I’ve got the support to do that. So, it’s great that I’ve got the support of the big, established team, but the freedom, I suppose, of just being a team of one in a really small marketing team.

Karen: I love that, thank you. It's a good perspective for people who—I’ve certainly talked to people who are research teams of one before that are US-based, but I think that you really do have a scenario there that could be the best of both worlds, almost literally, right where you have resources. Although I imagine that there are discrepancies or differences or nuances that differentiate the two, you know, cultural markets there, you know? 

Bethan: Yeah, definitely. And I think especially in home security, the markets are so different, the laws are so different, you know? So, as much as I do tap into the team, quite a lot, I will then always kind of go off and think, right, now let’s think UK-based. And quite often, it does mean stripping a lot of it back, but you know, there are certain things around app functionality, for example, and you know, customer experience, things like that, where some of the insights can be transferred. And even if not, you know, there’ll be a discussion guide floating around somewhere that I can use as a starting point as opposed to—

Karen: As a starting point, yeah.

Bethan: Starting from scratch. 

Karen: Yeah, yeah. So, kind of, high level view for you, what’s the most rewarding thing about being on the client side?

Bethan: I think for me, it’s being able to finish those conversations, and kind of—it sounds really cheesy, but seeing your work in action. So, one of the first projects I did when I joined was looking at the language that we use to describe our services, and then based off of the back of that work, there were some very distinctive changes made to a TV ad just before it went live. And, you know, I was looking at the script of the TV ad and recommending changes. And I couldn’t get in my head around the fact that they the team, were just going, “Okay,” and making the changes— 

Karen: [laugh].

Bethan: —you know, based on the insight. And it was kind of like, I’m doing this, you know? Like, this is based on my work. I run the groups, I found out what consumers wanted, and the changes are happening right in front of me. And then when the ad went live, I kind of did a bit of a diddi dance every time I saw it because I was, like, that was me [laugh].

Karen: That’s awesome.

Bethan: Yeah, so it’s definitely about—because I think with agency, you don’t necessarily see that part, right? You pass it over to the client team beforehand, and so that was really nice.

Karen: There are moments. So, you know, I have a career—kind of, you know, Part A of my career—as a qualitative researcher and I remember every now and then, I’d see a package design change, for example, and I’d say, “Oh, I had something to do with that.” But it is always like that language: “‘something’ to do with that.” I exposed, you know, three different package design concepts to consumers and gaged their reaction qualitatively, and then recommended based on preferences I heard in the discussions, you know, recommended actions. But it’s a part of it, right? Like, the other teams come together to then move ahead with feasibility in their own A/B testing, whatever. So, I think it’s really interesting because you can say when you’re on the—sort of in the supplier chain, you can say, “I had something to do with that,” but in your case, you had a lot to do with that, and it was highly empowering it sounds.

Bethan: Yeah, definitely. I love it. And I love being able to… kind of be the internal expert, and have people come to me and say, you know, “I’ve got this idea,” or, “I’ve got this question. Can you help me with it?” And being able to find out, you know, what data we might have already, or where the gaps are, or kind of starting that process of building a project and writing the brief and, you know, finding out the strategic reasons behind it, and things like that. I think it's the start and the end piece that was missing from the agency side, I’m really enjoying being involved in.

Karen: So often, if a researcher gets a brief, they’re getting, you know, here’s already thought out, here’s the business challenge, here are the research questions that can address the business challenge. Whereas you’re a part of creating that brief at this point, right, so you’re behind the scenes, really helping to make sure that your colleagues' questions get answered. So, that’s pretty cool. So, what’s most challenging for you now, kind of, sitting where you are? What would you say is the most challenging part of it?

Bethan: I think sometimes I still forget, I suppose that I’m not agency-side anymore, and when I’m getting agencies on board to help, I keep having to remind myself, like, no, that’s their job. Let them do their job, and keep your nose out of it [laugh]. And don’t get me wrong, you know, I work very collaboratively with my agencies. And I do like to still get my hands dirty, and I warn them of that before we start working because that’s not for everybody, so the agencies that I work with do like that way of working, but sometimes, you know, I have to kind of remind myself of that. But other than that, I think it’s—I’m finding, kind of the prioritization a bit challenging, in the best way, in that there seems to be so much appetite and enthusiasm in the business for using insights—which is by far the better problem to have, right—that I have to kind of keep sitting down and thinking to myself, “Right, let’s think, what are the business strategies for this year? Does this link directly to those?” Because if it doesn’t, then I have to kind of say no, or say not yet, or say I can do this instead, whereas, if it does link directly, and you know, we can work on that together. But it’s having to remind myself not to get excited and run off with every kind of ad-hoc query that comes in, and keep taking it back to those strategic foundations.

Karen: Two things I want to go back to that you’ve just said. So, you know, the first being, I have another close friend, a woman I used to work with, who, when she went she was, you know, supplier-side, and then when she went agency, she had a similar thing. I’d love to actually connect you. She had a similar thing where she was like, “I have to remember that they’re the ones who are really writing, you know, the project screener for me, for example, or questionnaire.” She’s like, I’m so used to being a research director and doing that work that I have to remember I’m here to react, not create, [laugh] you know, and things like that. So, you’re not alone. Some work habits die hard, right? So—

Bethan: Yeah, yeah.

Karen: Anyway, very interesting. But also the other thing you just said, which is about the prioritization, I am close with another woman who’s client-side, and she has shared that that really does fall on her lap of all of the different things that come in, especially as a small team, all of the things that come in, she has to make the decision. This is hers to prioritize which projects do I need to work on, and then also how to communicate to people whose work is de-prioritized that they’re going to have to wait. That’s no small thing, so I’m glad you shared that. 

Bethan: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think for me, the way that I’m finding to make that easier is definitely focusing on the rather than a no, it’s a not yet, or it’s a you can have this instead, or you know, I’ve found this data source online that could help you, rather than just saying, “No, I can’t help you.” Because then it means that they come back to you as well because you haven’t just outright, you know, shut them down which is nice. 

Karen: Yeah. Yeah, you’ve given them, if anything, an interim fix to kind of, you know, bridge that divide from when you can get to their work. Very cool. So, let’s also talk about what you’re saying about, you know, you are seeing some of the fruits of your efforts, which is, you know, infusing a love of insights, or appreciation of insights in the organization where you’re working. And you know, in doing my research for this episode, I found something published online already by [Zappi 00:18:18], where you did talk about, like, ensuring they become customer [obsessed 00:18:21]. So, shout out for them to chatting with you about this topic. But tell me what that looks like. What are you actively doing to instill this feeling about the voice of the customer really mattering and about the customer experience being pervasive, but also the role of insights to make sure it’s communicated? What are some steps you’re actively taking?

Bethan: I’m very much still on the journey, and it’s not an easy one. I’m finding, kind of, especially, like I said, as the first insight hire and it just being me. But I feel like I’m kind of, you know, doing a lot of trial and error and testing things and finding out what works. So, we’re a very Slack-oriented business, there’s lots of DMs and things and channels flying around, and so I’m communicating kind of little tidbits of insights through that, kind of, you know, keeping people engaged and kind of curious, I guess, making that relevant to things that are going on in the wider world around them so that they can use them as they come in. So, that’s worked quite well. You know, I’m setting up an internal research panel, so that, you know, some of those, kind of, smaller ad-hoc queries that come in can be dealt with a lot easier without, kind of, you know, railroading some of those bigger pieces. So again, it’s helpful to have that avenue where people feel like they can connect to the customer a little bit easier. Because I keep telling everyone in the business, you know, my job, essentially, is to move us towards the ideal, which is where every business decision that’s made is made on evidence from the consumer, you know? So, the first stage in that because I can’t possibly know every business decision that’s happening throughout the business, so the first stage of that process is having people come to me, first of all, to kind of, you know, spot the opportunity, and then think, oh, Bethan might be able to help with that, or she may be able to, you know, provide a perspective on X, Y, Z. And so again, I’m just having lots of conversations, lots of chats around the business, trying to keep circulating things that I think are interesting, you know, dropping teasers and things when I’m having big projects, which always, kind of, keeps peaking the interest quite high. So, yeah, I feel like the appetite and the enthusiasm, like I said, is definitely there, which is brilliant, and it’s just a case of trying to, you know, keep that momentum, and it’s almost trying to ingrain it into existing habits, isn’t it? You know, as people are going about the day-to-day jobs, I’m trying to force myself into that process so that they think, you know, “Could Bethan help me with this?” And yeah, we’re getting there. We’re getting there slowly, but it was never going to be an overnight fix. So.

Karen: When you talk about building a, you know, kind of a panel, an internal panel, which I think, you know, spot on. I love the thinking that goes into that because I also believe it’s going to give you the accessibility to customers that you need and can rely on and help deliver against some of those goals that your team might have to get quick answers. So, I applaud you for that, but I also think about how many things you’re doing, [laugh] you know? You admitted in the very beginning of this that you’re sort of doing it all, [laugh] you know, from, you know, from the analytics to the qual and the quant data capture. So, no small thing. So, what is your day-in-the life like? Are you literally working, you know, 16 hour days, or are you putting in some shortcuts? Or are you, you know, pitching to get some more help on your team? Like, how are you managing the vast amount of work that you must have ahead of you?

Bethan: I am still learning [laugh]. I’m very much not an expert at that side of things, yet. I have got some brilliant agencies around me, which really help, and I’ve got the budget to be able to lean on them as well, which, again, really helps. And I think coming from an agency background, what I’m trying to do is build up a very close knit group of agencies that I just implicitly trust to get the job done, you know, so that we don’t have to keep going through the procurement and the learning of the business and all of those, you know, foundational stages you have to go through to build a relationship. They’re all in place. And that’s the plan. I’m not there yet. That’s the plan; that’s the goal. So, that really helps, again, kind of coming back to those business strategies and things, really helps. And I feel like, in some instances, I know I’ve been here for a year, but I’m still in that setup process a little bit. So, for example, with the panel, even though it’s a bit of short-term pain in terms of getting that set up, once it is set up, it will act as a bit of a shortcut. And so, it’s just a case of keeping myself accountable, and you know, almost saying, right, well, if I’m going to work on this for this long, it means that for that period, something else has to give, you know? And so, I suppose that’s where the agency perspective is helping because of the project management and, you know, the time management and things like that. But yeah, day-to-day, there is a bit of doing, there’s a lot of talking and a lot of meetings because I feel like it’s the stakeholder relationships that are the most important piece of the puzzle, right? Because if the stakeholders don’t believe in what you do, then you’ve got nothing to do. So, there’s a lot of chatting, which, as you can imagine, isn’t an issue for me. 

Karen: Yeah, yeah. I—[laugh] sweet. Yeah, like, I—getting stakeholder buy-in, or getting stakeholder trust, right, for them to understand what you’re doing, and then developing these agency relationships with vendors that you trust. So, I’m feeling this sort of theme across both of those that I—not part of our brief, so just roll with me for a minute—what do you think people are looking for when you know you want your stakeholders to kind of trust you and buy into what you’re doing and suggesting, and you know basically the partners that you work with, they want you to trust them, right? So, if you look at that conceptually, what’s your definition of that? Like, what is at the heart of trust? Big question.

Bethan: Oh, big question. I think for me, it’s communication. That’s a big, big part of it. You know, I don’t want—and the communication needs to be open, it needs to be transparent, and it needs to be two way, particularly with the agency perspective. You know, I don’t ever want a client-supplier relationship; I want a partnership. And so, you know, I’ve already had instances with my agencies where, you know, I’ve spotted something and gone, “I’m not sure this part of our working relationship is working the best. Can we review it?” And of course, you know, as the agency, they’ve gone, “Yeah, let’s sit down. Let’s work out what will be better.” But what’s even better than that is that I’ve had agencies come to me and say the same thing. And, you know, the idea that as an agency, you feel comfortable enough to go to your client and say, “Bethan, this isn’t working the best. Can we switch it up?” It was a big moment for me because I was like, that is proof that relationship exists, that trust exists, you know, there’s no, kind of, imbalance of power there or anything like that. And there’s something—so AURA, which is a client-side organization over here, they’ve set up something called the Working Well, Together Charter. I don’t know if you’ve come across it, but essentially, it has kind of six core pillars to it, and it defines, has guidelines on how you can work well as a client to help build those effective relationships with your suppliers, with your agencies. And when you read it, on the premise of it, it’s essentially, don’t be an idiot, be a nice person, you know, [laugh] is what it comes down to, but again, it’s all about, you know, transparent communication and two way and, you know, being upfront with things and not demanding things last minute if you don’t have to, and all of this sort of thing. So, yeah, I think the communication is a big part of it. And that translates to the stakeholder side of it as well, right? You know, I want stakeholders to be able to come to me and say, “That’s not quite what we were after,” you know, rather than just say, “Oh, well, it doesn’t quite fit the brief, so I’ll just put it down and let it get dusty and not do anything with it.” Because if that happens, they won’t come to me next time. Whereas I’d much rather, you know, us be able to have a transparent conversation and get to a better outcome at the end and for that to be repeated. So, I think that’s why I have so many meetings in my diary [laugh]. 

Karen: Exactly right? I love this, and I just want to say thank you for allowing me to kind of put you on the spot with such a big question. We talk a lot about the need for trust right now in the industry, and I love when somebody like yourself is able to articulate what that means and how you execute it, you know, how you say, “I want to build trust. This is one way how.” Rather than just leaving the world saying, “Yeah, great. How do I get that?” You know? And we’re going to segue into parenthood in just a moment. You know, one of the things I said to my children as they were growing up was, just remember, you know, it takes, kind of, a lifetime to build trust in our relationship and one bad decision to knock it away. So like, you know, trust has been something that has come up for me in my personal life as well, and I think that could stand true for a lot of, you know, partnerships, right, is, like, we work to build trust over time, and if we make a poor step or a poor decision or something that isn’t transparent, we could ruin years of working together. So anyway, thank you. Much to think about for our listeners, I hope. But let’s use this segue since I brought up parenting because one of the things that caught my eye when again I was finding you Bethan was a post on LinkedIn about, kind of, the transition to, you know, to kind of welcome a child into the world, and what does that parental leave like? And I’ve had a lot of conversations with folks about, you know, like, just the tension that mothers face when they are also trying to raise a family and be a good partner to their spouse who’s also trying to raise a child. You know, we’ve come so far in so many ways across the world about what that looks like, but you had posted something about it, too, and I said, “Oh, now this I want to dig into.” So, here for the last stretch of this podcast, talk to me a little bit about, you know, kind of what your experience with parental leave has been, and then we’ll move into kind of how it informs, like, your whole approach to work-life balance and all of that.

Bethan: Yeah. And so, I have two children, and my eldest is four and is about to start school, which is terrifying, and my youngest is five months now, five-and-a-half months. So yeah, I suppose I’m quite fresh out of the bag in terms of having her. And I ended up taking leave the same way both times for the same reason both times, actually. So, my wife and I had always planned to share the leave both times because we both believe in the kind of benefits of that and being able to both bond with the child and, you know, yadda yadda yadda. But both—[laugh] it was bad planning on my part—both times I fell pregnant, I had just got a new job, so wasn’t applicable for full, kind of, parental support in terms of pay and things. So, I think both times, we would have probably split it a bit more evenly if we could have done but we couldn’t. So, I ended up taking three months, and then my wife has taken six on the back of that. And yeah, I absolutely would recommend to anybody to share their parental leave if they can. I know that the situation in the UK and the States is very different, you know, how all of that works, but we’ve just found that the benefits have been incredible in terms of, you know, both being able to, like I said, bond with the baby, but also have that level of empathy with each other. You know, we both know how hard it is to be at home with the baby all day, but we also both know how tiring it is to go to work and then come home and then, you know, relieve the one that’s been at home with the baby all day.

Karen: Yeah, so my children are older. They’re all now young adults. I officially don’t really have, technically, have a child. I have young adults living [laugh] in my home, some of them, and living outside on their own now. But I remember, you know, clear as day, 25 years ago, when I, you know, stopped working and was, you know, home on leave, of my own design. I had my own business at this time. Had kind of, on my own, I decided I was going to take leave, but my husband went back to work. And I remember feeling like when he came home, this needs to be, like, your turn. And it did foster this, like, taking turns dynamic. So, I love what you’re saying because that feels like there’s something that could be so much more improved to that, but you’re so tired in those first few weeks. Now, I certainly, you know, have, you know, again, I was self-employed, so I was not even the same, and I know that women have a variety of different leaves available to them, and, you know, and men as well. I mean, my son just became a father, and he has, you know, paternal leave as well.

Bethan: Congratulations.

Karen: He’s so fortunate. I know, thank you. It’s been almost a year now. So, I know there’s different nuances there, but I think the reality is, and this is what I love to hear is, what are some things you do—now that you’re, kind of, at work, what are some things you are doing to kind of keep that perspective, about sharing this experience, of having, you know, not just an older child, but now this five month old who is in that place? I think there’s a lot of working women who can learn a lot from listening to somebody like yourself, who has kind of walked this walk. 

Bethan: Yeah. And I don’t feel like I’ve cracked it? You know, I don’t necessarily feel like anybody feels like they’ve cracked it, and if they have, please, please [laugh] let me know. Because it’s always about striking that balance, right? But I think for me, for so long, I was trying to give too much of myself to, kind of, too many areas, if you like, and then because of that, I felt like I was being a rubbish mom as well as a rubbish employee as well as a rubbish wife and a rubbish friend, you know? And you kind of feel like because you’re trying to be good at all of those things, you then end up being not very good at any of them. So, we very much are—trying being the keyword—to whichever kind of pot you’re investing your resource into, just focusing on that and, you know, letting go of the others. So, it’s a case of, if I’m with children, you know, I do my very best not to think about work and not to focus on work. And in the same way, if I’m at home working, you know, I’m doing my best not to worry about what the children are having for dinner or whatever it is because that’s not my priority right then because somebody else is taking care of them. And it is hard. It is. And you know, you yourself saw, as we joined the call earlier, we could both hear the baby [laugh] cry. The baby crying. And your heart breaks a little bit, doesn’t it? But at the same time, you know, I have to go. I know she’s okay. My wife has got her. She’s perfectly capable. She’s a baby; babies cry. And I’ll give her a cuddle later. So yeah, I think there’s a lot of that. And I also think that, you know, it sounds cliche, but it’s about, kind of, lowering those expectations to a certain degree and just being kind to yourself. I mean, last night, I think I saw every hour on the clock.

Karen: [laugh]. And you’re still here.

Bethan: Yep. She’s teething at the moment, and she’s also not well. And you know that means that some of the tasks I wanted to get done today, I haven’t done them. You know, things are taking me a little bit longer. And it’s just the ability to go, that’s okay. 

Karen: That’s okay. 

Bethan: You know, it’s not the end of the world.

Karen: Yeah, it’s not. Well, I will tell you, even though my kids are grown, at about ten after nine this morning, I got a text message from my 25-year-old, who is now a father, living on his own, with the—and the text was simply on a call? With a question mark, at which point, I have to write back, I’m on calls, actually back to back till 2 p.m. Eastern. And he says, “Okay, it can wait.” And the amount of mental room that brief moment took up then in that moment because this is a grown man, [laugh] like, really, he’s a grown man, but he is my child, and there is something he wants to talk to me about. And so, he may not be crying going down for a nap, or he may not be, you know, overtired coming home from a first day of school, or may not be just homesick with a stomach bug, you know, and missing a day of elementary school or something. But it never ends [laugh] is my point. So, striking the balance now and recognizing that, like, the best thing I could do at that moment is say, “Great. We’ll talk at two.” Stay focused on my work. At two o’clock, I’ll call him and I’ll say, “Tell me what’s on your mind,” and I will give him my undivided attention. That’s actually stellar advice, Bethan. No matter how old the kids are, trying to stay present and mindful for the thing that is getting your attention at the moment because it doesn’t mean you don’t love the people around you, it doesn’t mean you don’t love your job, it just means that our mental load is great, and we have to share.

Bethan: Yeah, exactly. And I think more from my perspective with the younger children than yours, probably—correct me if you think that I’m wrong—but I think that the children having view of that is really important as well. You know, I like that—so there are certain days that my son doesn’t go to nursery at the moment, so he will be downstairs whilst I’m working upstairs. I’ll pop downstairs, I’ll make myself a drink, and I’ll give him a cuddle, and then I’ll come back upstairs. And I like the fact that he’s like, “You’re going back to work now.” You know, sometimes he’ll be like, “Can you play with me?” And I’m like, “No, I can’t. I’m working today.” And I like the fact that he knows, you know, I’ve got something important to do. You know, I’m earning money, and money is important because of X, Y, Z. And even translating that to, kind of, more social situations. You know, I like the fact that he can see me go to the door in my running gear, and he’s like, “You’re going for a run?” And he knows that it’s important that I get the space to go for a run or go to the gym. And the same for my wife, and, you know, will take turns in that. And he understands that, you know, I’m not just his mom; I’ve also got a job, and I’ve also need some space for myself. And, that’s important to me. 

Karen: Yeah. Well, you’re modeling a healthy lifestyle, a balanced lifestyle. Healthy, yes because you’re prioritizing your health by putting on running gear, but also, work is healthy, right? We know that it's good for us. And then also relationship times. So, yeah, I think we’re all a work in progress, right, no matter what we do, but I just love having a conversation with people who are willing to talk about it because I think that for women in particular, and again, not to minimize what a, you know, a father, would be going through, but I think that there is, there’s much to be said for people who think that they’re doing it alone, and that they’re the only ones, and that nobody’s ever walked this walk before, and that it’s unique. And yes, each situation might be unique, but nobody is alone. There are people out there that are figuring it all out every day of their lives. So, I applaud you for sharing so openly [laugh]. 

Bethan: Yeah, but then there’s a problem with that as well, right? I think people feel like they’re alone in it because we don’t talk about it as a society. Because there’s this insane pressure to enjoy the newborn bubble and to be this kind of, you know, this Pinterest mom who does all of these activities at home and is always feeding their child home-cooked, nutritious food and never puts a foot wrong. And then any parent that steps outside of that crazy, you know, picture that society has painted, feels like they’re doing it wrong, when in reality, every single parent—you know, I will mess up on a daily basis. And, you know—and I use ‘mess up’ in the loosest term of the word—and I think we need to do better to normalize that so that people don’t feel like they’re the only ones, and they don’t feel like they’re on their own. And then that’s when you can talk about, you know, the strategies to cope. And you know, how to get over it and how to kind of fix it, if you like because you’re able to share it.

Karen: Yeah, I agree. And you know, kind of bringing it back to our work worlds, you know, I think I had mentioned when I was having my children, I was self-employed, so I created my own rules, and I took the projects that fit my schedule, and I was able to do that. It was a privilege because my husband had, you know, the benefits at the time, he carried them all. But what are some things that an organization like the one that you work for, either has in place or other organizations can do? Not that our listeners are necessarily on their HR teams, but there are people who are on the brand side, who work for agencies, who might be able to have some way of facilitating some change, and saying these are some things that we should be doing right now to help us all get to a healthier mental load when we are in the workplace and raising children.

Bethan: Yeah, yeah. And I think again, you know, I’m going to come back to transparency and communication. I think a lot of it, you know, can help from that perspective. So, for example, I know, you know, it’s not something that I’ve had to do yet, I’m sure I will do in the future, but a lot of my colleagues in the US, you know, if a child is home from school ill, and there’s no other caregiver around, will put it in their Slack status, and just say, you know, I’m caring for a sick six-year-old today. I might be a bit slower getting back to you.

Karen: Yeah.

Bethan: And just having the, A, the safe space to do that, and B, the confidence that that safe space creates to think, like, it’s okay if I do this is a really powerful thing, right? And I think, you know, for example, I work condensed hours, so I have every Friday off. I say off; I do say it’s my hardest day of the week [laugh]. So, I don’t work a Friday, and I will set my Slack, you know, to out-of-office every Friday. I’ll put my out-of-office on my emails and so that people know I’m not around. And again, coming back to that, which part are you focusing on Friday, is my mom part, so that means that I have to be present within that part and not worrying about the others. But you know, being able, like you say, I'm privileged to work in an area where—work in a company where they’re allowing the safe space to be able to do that. And, you know, this time, for example, they’ve been extremely supportive in that I’ve obviously gone back to work after three months, but I’m still breastfeeding, so they’re really supporting me in working from home and not being in the office as much so that I can be around to feed the baby. Which, you know, you can’t put a price on that because it’s massively improving my life and being able to raise that child how I want to. 

Karen: Yeah. Really big applause to simply say for that. And I hope that, again, there are other companies, certainly here where we really need that kind of generosity of spirit in terms of benefits for parental leave. So, I’m just so glad you shared all this. And again, we’re open to the conversation because I know there are people that I’m going to be sending this episode to and saying, “Have a listen, especially towards the end, when we start to talk about something that’s highly relatable.” So Bethan, thank you so much, really. Thank you so much.

Bethan: It’s okay.

Karen: Tell me, is there anything that you really wish we had talked about? Because remember, I said we talked for about 40 minutes. Here we are. That timer says 47. This is so like me [laugh]. In the last minute, is there anything you wish we had covered that we didn’t get to?

Bethan: No, I don’t think so. I feel like I could keep going for hours, but no, I don’t think there’s anything in particular that I wanted to cover, no. 

Karen: That’s great. That’s great. Well, then let me just ask you one last question for posterity. You know, we always say at Greenbook, you know, we really try to cover the future of insights. So, kind of, in your opinion, what do you think the future of insights is all about?

Bethan: I’m going to repeat something that I’ve already said, and I do think that it is about those better working relationships between clients and, you know, agencies. I know that a lot of people are talking more, kind of, you know, about methods and AI and things like that, but I think you can’t ignore the human element. You can’t ignore how complex the world is getting and how complex we’re getting as people, and therefore, how important it is to have those people around you that you trust and that you can work with really easily. And, yeah, I think that’s where the magic is being able to really lean on somebody that you can trust in that way.

Karen: Yeah. That’s great. Thank you. I appreciate that and love that you’re wrapping it up with a comment about that’s where the magic is. So, thank you so much for that, for joining me on this episode. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

Bethan: I have loved it. Thank you so much. 

Karen: You’re very welcome. And thank you to, you know, our production team at Greenbook, Ashley who stepped in today, I’m so grateful for you. Um, our editor, Big Bad Audio, who cleans up our audio and videos these days to help us put out the final product, and also to all of our listeners, thank you for tuning in. So, grateful for you for showing up with each episode. And I will see you the next time for another episode of the Greenbook Podcast. Bye, everyone.