In this episode of the Greenbook Podcast, host Karen Lynch engages with Rasika Mathur, Head of Consumer Insights at Snapdeal. Rasika delves into her extensive career, highlighting her expertise in understanding consumer behavior and her journey in the industry. She shares her passion for fostering a customer-obsessed culture and explains how understanding consumer emotions can bridge the gap between intention and action, driving business growth and customer loyalty. Rasika offers practical insights into the nuances of e-commerce, from leveraging emotional intelligence in personalization to maintaining authenticity in digital interactions. Join us for a compelling conversation packed with actionable strategies and heartfelt anecdotes that underscore the power of consumer insights in shaping successful businesses.

Read Rasika's interview here.

You can reach out to Rasika on LinkedIn.

Many thanks to Rasika for being our guest. Thanks also to our producer, Natalie Pusch; and our editor, Big Bad Audio.

Transcript 

Karen: Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Greenbook Podcast. I'm excited to be hosting today. It's Karen Lynch, and today my guest is actually somebody I have had the privilege of meeting before at our APAC event not that long ago in Bangkok. I am talking to Rasika Mathur from Snapdeal. Rasika, before we even begin, welcome to the Greenbook Podcast.

Rasika: Thank you, Karen. It's such a pleasure to see you again, to meet you, and have this conversation with you tonight.

Karen: Ditto. Ditto. I feel the exact same way. So for those of you who have not met Rasika or know of her, she's the Senior Director and Head of Consumer Insights at Snapdeal. So, Rasika, let's just level-set by getting right into, you know, who Snapdeal is because much of our audience is in the U.S. and may not be familiar with the platform, which is in the world of e-commerce. So tell us about Snapdeal and then your role, specifically.

Rasika: Sure, Karen. Snapdeal is India's—we’re leading the value e-commerce platform. We’ve been here in the market for some time. We’ve undergone a lot of business transformation pivots, and we here now, established ourselves as a value e-commerce, looking at how diverse the opportunity, the demographics of our country and the opportunity that we have to position ourselves as an e-commerce platform.

Karen: And your role then, specifically, within the organization—tell us about that.

Rasika: So currently, I am heading their consumer insights team, Karen. But for me, I take great pride that, you know, my experience in the company spans for 14 years now. So I am more of a business person who has transitioned to a consumer research role in the last six years or... So my understanding of the whole—you know, the consumer and the business—is from the background that I have been part of the various business functions, working at the core of it, so, you know, setting up processes, understanding how they work in-depth, and then learning about—in-depth about how consumers are and, you know, how listening to them can actually be a gamechanger for each vertical in the business is what really excites me in my role currently.

Karen: I think I read, in one of your bios, that you work towards the customer-obsession culture, and I loved that phrase “customer-obsession.” Can you talk to me just a little bit about that: by leading this team, that’s what you’re doing?

Rasika: So one of the core values that—you know, for us, has been very critical has been the customer-obsession culture. So, while we have—the right from start, we’ve had the various ways of listening to the consumers, looking, you know, listening through social media, the various trends that we have out there. But being constantly being—making a conscious effort to understanding and listening to what consumers have to say, what they think, what they feel. And that has been, like, a foundation of how our business has evolved. So customer obsession is a culture, and it’s a part of the company core value that we here as a team lead. It’s not just about what we do as a function. It’s about how our learnings get translated to various actionables across the business scenario.

Karen: That’s great. And I love the fact that you have this history with the—I mean, if you’ve been there 14 years, you’ve been there since the founding or shortly thereafter. I love that you’re informing lots of different areas of the business.

Rasika: Absolutely, Karen. And that has actually given me a huge context in which we operate. So I’ve been part of the marketing team, the supply chain, the communication. Be some part of, you know, the job budget piece as well, and that has given a good context to understand what consumers say and how that translates to doing something about it in the business scenario is the what I’ve been able to bring to the table through that experience.

Karen: That’s great. And probably the most important thing for an insights professional is to, you know, make sure the insights gathered are actionable and then literally acted upon because they are actionable. So kudos to you. You know, I’m really excited to dig into the topic, you know, for reasons that will become clear. It’s a very interesting topic, and you have some interesting ways of talking about it. But when I say the topic, we’re going back in time now to our APAC event, our Asia Pacific event for those of you who aren’t familiar with our global event series. And I was privileged to have worked with you on this interview that we published ahead of time, which we’ll put into the [show notes 00:04:50], and then see you on stage. Tell me more about consumer emotions as a catalyst to business growth as a topic, and then we’ll dig into all the little nuances because it’s a fascinating space.

Rasika: So in today’s fast-paced life, we’re always hard-pressed for time, energy, money. And often—more often than not, we are pressed to make decisions in the spur of the mood. And often, these decisions, we realize over time, are less to do with the information that one has at that point in time but more about, you know, the instincts, the subconscious emotions, you know, the programming that we’ve grown up with over years. And that what finally leads to the action that one takes. So at a time when, you know, attention is fleeting, choices are abundant, understating these emotions actually play a very key role for a business to understand what the person is looking for and what those decisions are. So—but, you know, especially for us, you know, in the e-commerce world, the best decision a customer takes is the decision that he takes right now. So there is a lot of gap between what I would ideally say I would like to do and make a purchase about but finally what I end up doing. So that’s what this—the say-do gap as we all know about this is the what—to a great extent, the emotion. Understanding this for emotions have enabled us to bridge and figure out, really, what’s happening behind the screen.

Karen: And it’s not just the singular purchase decision. Right? These emotions, from your point of view, are affecting customer loyalty, affecting retention, repeat purchase. So what can you tell us about how emotions affect the bigger journey?

Rasika: So how we see it, a purchase journey, is actually not a series of transactions that a customer makes. It’s a series of experiences that a customer feels and, you know, feels a part of at every different state. So, while one may be able to identify the right product, have the right price point that fits his pocket—but you know what really gets a consumer back to your shop, to your platform, is how we made them feel right to the point after the product was also received by him. So, you know, it’s the understanding. It’s the connect. And actually, we believe that delivering the right product, the right quality at the right point, is the starting of relationship. The emotional connect is what defines how quickly and how frequently the person may come back to you to shop again.

Karen: That’s an excellent perspective, actually, to think about the entire experience, which is broader than the entire journey, which a lot of people in our industry do talk about customer journey. But, you know, we’re slow. We’re getting closer to understanding, you know, the world of the customer experience because insights is often just one part of the entire customer experience. So you talk about customer service. You talk about follow-up, if there’s any troubleshooting that needs to happen, the usability of the platform. It all factors in. Right.

Rasika: Absolutely.

Karen: So I’m sure in e-commerce, specifically, you’re seeing all of that.

Rasika: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, emotions actually go down to the depth of once the person receives the product. So often, they—in the beauty segment, there are often products—and especially if you want to buy good brands. You know, when the package actually comes to the doorstep, and you’re supposed to give your card and take, you know, $1,000 of makeup stuff that you’ve actually bought. But at the same time, the brand understands that emotion, and they will send you freebies, some things that you probably may not have really had the, you know, the mind to go and explore that as well. But they give you minis of the various product samples. And immediately, your mind changes from that fact that “Oh, I paid so much,” to the fact “Oh, I have freebies.” So, you know, these little tweaks actually change the whole experience.

Karen: It’s so interesting because I just had an experience with a beauty product within the last few weeks where something arrived damaged. There’s nothing worse than, you know, a damaged cake of makeup or—I think this was blush. Anyway. And I had forgotten that I had, you know, kind of registered my complaints online, and yesterday, I received a package, and it was a new one. And I was surprised again. I was sort of delighted. I’m like, “Oh, look,” as if it was brand-new because I had forgotten because it was a busy week last week. So, anyway, it’s interesting to think about that, you know, the opening of your package in your own space being a part of the journey and the experience as well. So I want to segue into personalization because that factors into a lot of e-commerce trends right now, this trend towards greater personalization and product recommendations happening and the algorithms having influence. But, when we layer in emotional intelligence, that changes things a bit. So I’d love your perspective on that because that’s a new way of looking at his.

Rasika: For us, personalization is not just about—and by “us” I mean people in the consumer research community and how—in the digital space we look at, it’s not just about recommending the right product or a more similar product to a customer. It’s also about being able to create a legacy of narratives, understanding what the priorities are. So you will probably have a similar line of messaging, the language, the visual surrounding the context in which the consumer actually sees the product. And there is like a series of cues that are meant to take the—so you understand the priority of a particular cohort of customers that you make, for instance, we are talking about. And this will be—personalization will be about guiding the consumer through their current emotional state to what the perceived emotional state is when the person anticipates when his need will be perfect. So personalization is actually helping him transition from what he is in the moment to what he would like to feel once that transaction is complete.

Karen: So one of the questions that I have about all of this is—as I’m thinking is okay, you know, going to the how do you archive this? How do you get that emotional understanding of all of the different states throughout, you know, not just the experience but also the personalized experience? What are some specifics about methodologies you’re using? Because we’ve talked a bit about data and how data is often unemotional.

Rasika: [laugh] Yeah. Absolutely. So over a period of time, we see certain trends that get reflected across different cohorts. So, you know, the younger population will have certain values, certain emotions, very core to them. So, for instance, if you talk about the younger lot, they are very aspirational in nature. They would like to believe that they wear only brands, for instance. And whether or not their pocket allows them—but they want to believe that they usually wear the high-profile branded clothing only. So, when you understand that, and you understand that there is a cohort that really believes and feels like that—so all the assortment that you have, and you kind of have it in a mix of the brand, the middle-segment brand, the value-segment brand, the guy realizes that, you know, a style and a design which is similar to what these big, luxurious brands have to offer, I am getting it at a better price. So he associates the same value with a better assortment that fits his pocket, which fits his budget, and that’s when you kind of guide him to it. So it’s not about changing what the person desires but being able to meet where and how he can afford that. So, you know, just understanding this, you kind of meet them in the middle and offer them what they’re looking at but at a value price that they can afford to have a part of it, really.

Karen: That’s a great example. And so, in my head, I’m thinking—so it’s not that you’re doing something specific to understanding emotions and shopping data concurrently, you’re really connecting threads between what the data is showing you and what you are learning about their values, and that must cross many methods of research. Am I right?

Rasika: Absolutely, Karen. In fact, we tried to understand how one could do that through technology, you know, to make it a very automated part of it. But somewhere down the line—and I think as researchers there is a big human element that you bring to this whole circle, and it’s not about just training the AI to, you know, pop up results after you’ve given it enough input, but it’s also about being able to constantly join these dots as you—you know, you interact, you talk to more people, you see how the demand changes, what is it that, you know, people have asked—people are asking for, and what they actually end up buying.

Karen: Yeah. Now, one of the things that you’ve talked about is the idea of being influential, right, and feeding into personalization by knowing who the consumers are. But is there a strategy that you use personally to help kind of map out all of these data points that you have, whether it’s an emotional data point or a literal shopper data point? Are there strategies that you personally use to help pull the whole picture together, whether it’s mapping or some other way of understanding the bigger picture?

Rasika: So I wouldn’t really call it, like, quant strategy or a process that we’ve taken into account. But, yes, we are constantly listening. We are constantly listening what data is talking, how the business is performing, what people are saying on different channels, what is their expectation, what is their perception. And then we do these interactions, and we have conversations with people. We have certain hypotheses that we’ve developed basis—you know, the external inputs that we received. And these hypotheses get validated or we get cues to go deeper into them to identify exactly what will work. And that’s how we kind of arrive at a strategy as such. So there is no—like, a congruent that this is the process that we will follow. But yes, we are listening. We work on skills. We, you know, evolve our teams to constantly learn, engage, and learn new strategies and skills to be able to learn and read between the lines of what you hear and finally what data is saying.

Karen: Can you give words of wisdom or practical advice to other certain areas of—companies to integrate some of these insights? You know, I know you shared the idea of what you can offer for, you know, a certain type of consumer, but are there other steps businesses can take to integrate some of your emotional insights that you’re sharing?

Rasika: So I think this is actually a very business-focused approach that one may have. But I think a lot of companies or businesses would really—so, you know, at the end of the day, everybody is looking at building a profitable business. You know, consumers learnings and consumer insights happen to be one of the ways to get the customer back to you. As somebody who has seen both the sides of being in the business and seeing how consumers respond, I think it’s very important to be authentic in trying to achieve and trying to deliver what you promise to deliver in terms of, you know, the values that you, as a business, as a brand, you have set for yourself and making sure that consumers are actually understanding and being able to live the promises that you have delivered to them. So I think that it cannot be profitability, and hence, listen to what people are saying. It rather has to be listen to what people are saying, build your business accordingly, and then profits are an obvious outcome corridor. You know, if people feel happy, at the core of it, people want to go to—to shop from any place that built trust, where they feel happy, where they feel that, you know, the right things will be given to them; they won’t be cheated. Their values will be respected for it. And I think once that happens, everything else falls in place.

Karen: When you say “authenticity,” in my head, I’m thinking how does that translate to an e-commerce site? What does an e-commerce company, that could be perceived as not human, right, because there’s no cashiers standing there or people on the floor helping you out—how does that authenticity play out in a digital, e-commerce ecosystem?

Rasika: So I give you—I’ll share with you an example. Now, let’s take, you know, one of the, you know, a business segment, say the housewives, who are shopping very frequently in the online space. Now, over time, one understands that housewives, while they are the nurturers and they take care of the family needs and they are shopping for everybody in the family, they are often the people who don’t end up thinking about themselves. So there is lot of magnanimity. They are looking out for validation. If they are wanting to buy, you know, a new dress for themselves, they would wait for the children to come back from school and tell them and get their advice. “Oh, how will this dress look, look on me?” So, you know, at the time, when she is, you know, maximizing her time and the boredom to see what is there online—and online shopping is an escape for her. That’s an emotion that you know exists. Now, a good business practice would try to help and give her validation to make her feel good, that, you know, you are important, and here are some offers that, you know, you can avail if you do shopping—buy one, get one—or whatever, you know, the business dynamics work well for. So that is being authentic, that you understand that she’s looking for validation. She's giving an magnanimous phase of that time, and she’s looking for somebody who can respect those emotions. Now, at the same time, a bad business practice can actually play around with those emotions and maybe just drive her to, you know, a certain set of products or give really bad collection, you know, like some products which actually have been discarded by the brand, and you clear the position that, you know, you will get something for only seven rupees in this limited window. So a housewife will jump in for those kind offers because there is this feeling of—that I did something good, and I was able to save more for my family. But if, you know, a bad business practice would want to actually exploit this emotion and just give whatever they can sell at that point in time. So that’s the differentiation. And today’s consumers are smart enough. They are more than consumers. They are well educated. They are smart enough to understand what is real and what is fake. You know, and then there is no coming back from that.

Karen: Once you’ve hurt that relationship, so to speak, by not understanding who they are, that’s something that you can’t recover from. And as you’re talking, I’m thinking to myself that’s—you know, the understanding of those emotional needs states are really key to what you’re talking about. Do you have many, many personas that you have sought to understand of all different shoppers, you know, across the ecosystem? Because I imagine a housewife, a woman in that particular need state is just one of many.

Rasika: Yeah. Absolutely. So we keep evolving our understanding as to, you know, what are the different types of consumers in the online world, and it’s not just about what our business caters to. But there is a whole, big, wide world that has opened to online shopping, especially post-COVID. So there are a lot first-timers—there are a lot of people who have been shopping online and have been making online payments—but for them, online shopping is a whole new, big world. So there is a constant to our business. We have figured, you know, who and what are the different cohorts that come often and how—what is the level of engagement and how they do. But this is a constantly, you know, evolving feeling, and this is what probably was in the last six months, and what the next six months is going to be is going to be another level of evolution.

Karen: I love that perspective because I think a lot of organizations consider their work on personas and segmentation done [laugh]. And then they say, “There. I’ve done—we’ve done our segmentation. We know who our shoppers are.” So I love the idea that who is shopping for you today may not be the same people that were shopping for you six months ago that you think you fully understand—that you have to continually understand who might be coming into your audience.

Rasika: And the context is not just about what we do as an online platform but the demand is changing. You know, there are small businesses coming up that everybody has, you know, a next context to either build a business or to set up business or to make their lives more efficient and better. And even the people today are finding various ways on how they can optimize. I remember talking to—so, like, in India there is, like, a—it’s also, like, a new business done in the last one year who—that they give delivery of products within seven, eight minutes. So you—it’s an app. You pick up things that you want, and they deliver to your doorstep within seven, eight minutes. This is a service that you have to pay a fee for it. So, usually, this was meant to be for people who live in larger communities or, you know, have a higher standard of living. And the other day, I was talking to a customer who happened to be—he was an online shopper, shopping for, like, three, four years now. And he has a shop in one of the streets in Mumbai. I was talking to him, and we were trying to—you know, have his perspective on a business. And he says, “Ma’am, can you give me a second? I need to order biscuits through this particular app for my child.” And I was surprised this bag of biscuits is just for ten rupees, and you’re going to pay more than the price of the biscuits to actually have it delivered to your doorstep. He said, “Yes. I’m at the peak of my business hour. I cannot leave my shop and go. But I’ll be better at what I do if I’m able to have this delivered to the child who just come back from school and is really cranky because he wants to have these biscuits before. So—and my wife cannot go out. We have a younger child, younger baby, so she can’t go out. So I may be spending a little more, but at least there peace of mind, and I will be more efficient in how my whole household is functioning.” And I was like, wow.

Karen: Yeah.

Rasika: [laugh].

Karen: Highly, highly relatable example to anyone who has [laugh] ever balanced work and parenting at the same time.

Rasika: Yeah.

Karen: And when I say parenting, pets count. Because I can’t tell you how often I wish there would be somebody who would just show up at the snap of my fingers to walk my dog for me when my—you know, like, they are—[laugh] like, there are things—

Rasika: [laugh] Yeah.

Karen: —that if they’re going to get in the way of your workday, that makes perfect sense to me. So...

Rasika: Yeah.

Karen: Yeah. That’s a moment to understand for sure, and an emotional need in a moment, and delivering against that. So fascinating. You know, another question I have for you—and this was something that I hadn’t really thought about until I read it in our brief, actually—this idea about visual cues and how heavily e-commerce relies on visual cues to drive purchase. And yet, emotional awareness of somebody’s mind state may not be necessarily going hand-in-hand with he visual cues. So it just seemed to be a puzzle that I’d love to get your thoughts on is how do you balance understanding, what’s going on with somebody’s emotional need state, and the visual cues that are already at the ready for your provide. Are there strategies that you put in place?

Rasika: Actually, yes. It’s a little broader in context as to how a business can, you know, provide that. But that’s really—so actually, one of the biggest challenges what a digital company has is not being able to see the consumer at the time that he is on your platform. So, you know, buying in the retail segment, you can see. You have cues. You have, you know, these aromas and, you know, the freshly-brewed coffee that kind of just calms you down and, you know, makes you happy, and the lighting, the soft music kind of just kind of settles you down. And they, you know, in certain ways, try and get you ready for a shopping moment so that you’re able to spend money and choose a product and maybe spend some more. However, in digital commerce, we really don’t know what’s happening on the other side of the screen, what emotional state somebody is in, what is it that they’re feeling, what kind of day they’ve had. But, at the same time, one understands what time of the day is the person coming more often and, you know, what kind of products is he looking at when he is looking and, you know, coming at that point in time. So the different communication strategies in terms of the visual cues that you have, you know, on the platform and the kind of—the offers that you bring, the way you talk to him about what is important for him at that point in time. I think these are the various ways where you are actually connecting to what is important to the person at that given point in time. And through that repeated, you know, understanding of what gets looked at, how frequently, what time, you are able to clear that context for him to at least, you know, come back more often, look at what’s being offered to him, what variety, what price point. Is it for himself or herself, or is it more for other people? Is it more of the gifting kind of products that you’re looking at? So I think there are various factors that kind of come together, combine. And you cleared that in mind digitally, without knowing what’s happening on the other side of it. So it’s like a gamble [laugh] that you play every day.

Karen: Well, but for you, I imagine personally doing this work—you seem to have a very solid grasp of the emotional state of a customer, of all of your different types of customers. And that’s clearly through years of putting their voice ahead of the data and your understanding of them as a priority over just looking at numbers and number crunching. So is there anything that you personally have done to kind of grow your appreciation or understanding? Like, any mindsets you personally have that have helped you become so customer centric and customer obsessed?

Rasika: I think a big part of, you know, the opportunities that came my way were in the business front. So, you know, we—when we are in the business front, you are doing everything and you are striving to do everything right to help the end user get the most of it. So I think a lot of fine-tuning has happened through years of working as part of different processes, different business verticals, to train the mind as to—you know, at the end, it’s the customer who—that matters. And also, the customer obsession mindset and, you know, respecting what is genuine, respecting what really comes through, and also—I also had the opportunity to work with people across geographies. And this is with Snapdeal and even before, you know, my work experience before Snapdeal. So I think the last 18, 19 years of, you know, working in the business front, across industries—so I’ve been part of FMCG. I’ve been part of publishing. I’ve been part of the retail sector, and then came Snapdeal. So a lot of that experience has given me a perspective to look at things in different ways in diverse contexts. And actually, I think that has really helped me constantly to, you know, introspect more, learn more. And over time, the learning and, you know, people insights has become a subject that I’m really passionate about.

Karen: It’s like, you know, as you’re talking about that, and I’m thinking about the design thinking process of, you know, start with empathy and then iterate and test and iterate and test. And I’m like, that’s basically what you’re doing in your own mind, right, is you’re learning. You’re iterating on your learning. You’re reflecting. I love that—

Rasika: [laugh] Yeah.

Karen: —that example. I have a nice picture in my mind for that. Any words of advice for somebody that doesn’t have the benefit of sort of the career journey you’ve had but would like to get to this place of customer obsession and this heavy lean towards emotional learning? Any advice for people who are newer in the industry, for example?

Rasika: Yeah. I think a consumer’s learning space is an ever evolving space, and I always find it as a blank canvas. So even when we initiate new studies and, you know, new areas of investigation, we always feel that we’re starting from scratch. And sure, the years of experience do add a lot fine-tuning, and you probably know what is worth investigating deeper, what is worth—but I think you need to start from scratch with a fresh perspective and do not limit by what you know. Because we also realize that consumers are ever evolving. What one may feel is as something that, you know, we knew a year back, the pace at which things are changing, the pace at which, you know, digital has become such an obvious part of everybody’s life space, I don't think that, you know, what you learned a year back is something that you can be very happy and proud of that—you know, I have—in 19 years of experience. I think experience only give you the ability to look at different perspectives.

Karen: Yeah.

Rasika: And respect those perspective. But what you do in this space is an ever evolving thing, and you always start from scratch. So whenever I work—whoever is starting—we all start on the same plane. It’s just that the perspective and the value for perspectives is what gets added as a bonus after you have the 19 years of work around it.

Karen: I love that. And check your confirmation bias at the door whenever you start new and instead seek what’s new and fresh and different, every project you go into. Right? Because take for granted that things have changed [laugh] and that people evolve because the world evolves. Right?

Rasika: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m actually in a research where what you know actually counts as biasness. So you need to be unbiased. And to be unbiased, you need to unlearn whatever you’ve learned.

Karen: Yeah. Yeah. And start fresh. I love that.

Rasika: Yeah.

Karen: Thank you so much for this talk. Is there anything that you were really hoping that I asked you that I missed or didn’t bring to the surface in our talk?

Rasika: No. I think we had a wonderful conversation. Thank you for, you know, guiding along this conversation. And there is so much—I often tell, you know, our colleagues and people who join us, you know, in our—in Snapdeal is that whenever you need time and you want to take a coffee break, just hop on to my seat, and I would love to share more anecdotes and more interesting stories and perspectives to it because there is so much that we learn every day, and there is actually no end to what I would be able to say that, oh, yes, now I have really spoken about what I had to share. But, yes, it’s a constant feel, look at it, and I would love to keep sharing that as and when I learn more.

Karen: Well, that’s wonderful. How might people connect with you? Is there, you know, an easy way for anyone to reach out if they have questions or to just kind of continue that conversation with you? Maybe it’s your LinkedIn. What would you prefer?

Rasika: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I am there on LinkedIn. My email ID also stands [email protected]. So I would love to hear from like-minded professionals, from people who would like to, you know, have more conversations and deeper conversations around it. And LinkedIn is, of course, always there.

Karen: Of course. Of course. Well, thank you so much for this conversation. I sincerely appreciate your time and attention today.

Rasika: Thank you, Karen. My pleasure. My pleasure always to connect with you.

Karen: For sure. For sure. And to all of our listeners, that’s our show today. Thank you so much for joining us on the Greenbook Podcast. Many, many thanks to our producer, Natalie, and to our editor, Big Bad Audio, and, of course, all of you. It’s because you tune in that we find great fulfillment in our work here bringing these conversations to you. So, thank you all very much. Have a great week. Until the next time, we’ll see you soon.